Maria Sisneroz (00:12) It's the final countdown. Do do do do. Do do do do do. Aarati Asundi (00:12) Great. And that's how we're starting the episode. Maria Sisneroz (00:23) Hi everyone and welcome back to the Smart Tea Podcast where we talk about the lives of scientists and innovators who shaped the world. Aarati Asundi (00:30) Hey Maria, how's it going? Maria Sisneroz (00:32) Oh you know, living the dream. Aarati Asundi (00:35) Yeah, yeah, super, super busy? Maria Sisneroz (00:38) Yes, I'm extremely busy at school... schools. Since I'm in school times two. Aarati Asundi (00:42) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (00:43) But fortunately, second school is going to be done in about four weeks. Aarati Asundi (00:48) Amazing. Maria Sisneroz (00:48) I graduate literally one month from today or tomorrow. Aarati Asundi (00:52) It is graduation season, isn't it? I'm seeing all these like videos about people getting ready for prom and graduation and like, you know. Maria Sisneroz (01:01) Oh my gosh, it is prom, isn't it? Aarati Asundi (01:03) It is. Yeah, I've seen I'm seeing all these like videos of people choosing their dresses and like getting their nails done and all this stuff. Maria Sisneroz (01:10) In my head, so I saw an image on Facebook. And I just want to preface this by saying like, I don't actually use Facebook. So don't judge me. I just go on it occasionally to like look at some old people who only use Facebook. Just thing is like, actually a lot of people our age still use Facebook. Yeah, no, but I- Aarati Asundi (01:19) Do they? I don't know. don't- Maria Sisneroz (01:35) I heard you can tell how old someone is based on what platform they use. Aarati Asundi (01:39) I can totally tell that, yeah. Maria Sisneroz (01:40) Like, older folks tend to use Facebook. I think like some millennials still use Facebook. And then like Instagram, I think is a millennial thing. Maybe a little, I'm not really sure about like X and all that jazz. Aarati Asundi (01:54) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (01:55) And then Snapchat, I think is like where a lot of people live and TikTok is where the like Gen Zers live, I think. Aarati Asundi (01:54) Okay, well, I'm obsessed with TikTok, so yeah. Maria Sisneroz (02:01) I mean, I go anywhere. You're on TikTok? Yeah. Anyway, as I saying back to the original story, I was on Facebook and one of my relatives has like two kids. And I don't know how time has passed so much, like so quickly, but like this kid that I thought was like seven or eight is like 17 or 18... Aarati Asundi (02:21) Oh my god. Wait. Maria Sisneroz (02:22) ...and going to senior prom. And so was like, well, number one, what did this happen? Aarati Asundi (02:26) Yeah, you're just a baby. Like what? What are you doing? Maria Sisneroz (02:28) I know. And then number two, I was like, Oh... senior prom? And I'm like, that doesn't make sense. And like now that we're I'm looking at a calendar in front of me, I'm like, it's Aarati Asundi (02:39) Yeah, it's kind of so crazy because I feel like when you're in school, your life is so structured, like, you know, around final exams and like, you know exactly what quarter it is, you know exactly when your midterms and your finals are. And so you're like waiting for the end of the year, you're waiting for a Christmas break. And so you know exactly where you are in the school year all the time. And now as adults, it's kind of what month are we in? What day is it? Maria Sisneroz (03:02) Yeah, and then like, it's weird because even though I'm in school, it's not like normal school. So it's like, I don't know how much time has passed. I look down and like, oh, shoot, it's like middle of May? When did that happen. Did you go to prom? I can't.... You didn't go to prom, right? You didn't go to any dances. except the one that I took you to, that I tricked you into. Aarati Asundi (03:17) No. Yeah, you dragged me to one. Yeah, I was not a dance party social type of person. Like, I now I will go to a concert and I will dance. I'm not a good dancer, but I have let go of that stupid boundary that I had for whatever reason I had that. Maria Sisneroz (03:35) It is funny because I went to three proms. Aarati Asundi (03:36) You went to three proms?! Maria Sisneroz (03:40) I did, yeah. Aarati Asundi (03:41) Oh my God. Why? How? Maria Sisneroz (03:43) At my high school it was junior/senior prom. Aarati Asundi (03:45) Mm-hmm. Maria Sisneroz (03:46) So my sophomore year, a junior asked me to go. So I said, yes. Aarati Asundi (03:50) Okay. Okay. Maria Sisneroz (03:50) And then junior year... it's a junior/senior prom. So I went to prom Aarati Asundi (03:53) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Makes sense. Maria Sisneroz (03:55) and then I went obviously as a senior as well. Aarati Asundi (03:58) That's so funny. I feel like in that respect, we're so different because I feel like you take advantage of every opportunity that life gives you almost like any event you're ready to go to it. If your school's having something you're ready to go to it. And I'm just like, I refuse. I refuse to go to anything. I want to sit at home and be at home. I'm just like a homebody and I don't want to go to anything and do, or I don't want to do anything. Maria Sisneroz (04:23) I will say I'm kind of, I'm like that now. Anyway, so today, normally I have a shirt on that is representative of what you're going talk about, but because today is a very special day, I am going to be off-brand. Aarati Asundi (04:40) Oh okay. Okay, great. Maria Sisneroz (04:42) Do you see what my shirt is? Aarati Asundi (04:44) I was looking at it. It did look like a Lord of the Rings themed t-shirt? Maria Sisneroz (04:49) It is actually a button up. that's, this is a... Aarati Asundi (04:52) Okay, button up. Sorry, excuse me. Maria Sisneroz (04:55) Yep. So see this is the ring. This is the inscription. Whoops. Well, you can't really see it, but I don't know why. Yeah. Inscription of the ring. There's Gandalf. Aarati Asundi (05:02) Mm-hmm. Yep. Maria Sisneroz (05:03) There is Legolas and Gimli. Aarati Asundi (05:05) Yeah? Maria Sisneroz (05:06) And the more important person that I'm trying to show you. Ah! Oh there. Look, it's Gandalf and Frodo. Aarati Asundi (05:17) OH my goodness. And is this in honor of your call name? Maria Sisneroz (05:20) My call sign? Yes. I got named last night. So I have a new call sign and my call sign is FRODO. Aarati Asundi (05:27) That's amazing. Congratulations. And I was especially happy for you because it sounded a lot like a kind of almost like a hazing thing for a few people. Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (05:38) It is. So fortunately, it's really close at this point. And so they're trying to give you a name that you're not going to hate for the rest of your life. So like, even when I was in the room when they were trying to pick names for other people, they'd be like, yeah, this is what we wanted to name him, but he didn't seem to want to be that. So why don't we go with like some, the one that he is like really wanting. Aarati Asundi (05:58) Yes. that's good. Maria Sisneroz (06:00) So they do take your like Aarati Asundi (06:01) Opinion. It's like the sorting hat in Harry Potter. Maria Sisneroz (06:04) your opinion into account. Kind of. Yeah, exactly. Like they know what they want, but then they're like, ⁓ okay, if you really want that, okay. Aarati Asundi (06:10) Okay, yeah. Maria Sisneroz (06:11) But I don't think that's how it always is. Oftentimes you get like a bad hand. And then FRDOD, which came from my old ⁓ job. One my friends and then a couple of my other coworkers came up with it based on something really stupid I did. These names are all based on things that you do that are really, really stupid or bad. Uh, the name is an acronym. So FRODO is actually all capitalized. That's why. Yeah. So it stands for something which I'm not going to tell you until you give me a beer or a drink. You I'll tell. I think I already told you actually. But anyone else... Aarati Asundi (06:46) Has to buy Maria, has to buy Maria drink. Okay. Maria Sisneroz (06:48) will not know until a drink. Yeah. And then I can tell you the story. Aarati Asundi (06:50) So this- this button-up shirt is for you. So congratulations. I'm very happy for you. But since you did not wear a t shirt that is related to the topic, I guess I can introduce the topic. So last week, we kind of did a bit of a downer of story, um, with Kristian Birkeland and you know, all of the work that he did and not receiving credit. And I don't know, just kind of left me feeling a little bit sad for him and a little bit on a low note, like, man, scientists shouldn't like work so hard and then not get credit for their work. So then I wanted to do a scientist who did get credit for their work. Um and also kind of a exciting story. And so I was looking at, you know, scientists, who have had really exciting lives or have like some... done something dramatic in their lives. And I came across this guy named Gustaf Dalén. And at first, like I was not too interested because it was like, he did something with lighthouses. And I'm like, okay, like lighthouses. But then I started reading a bit about him and then I was like, wow, his life was really interesting and ⁓ he did actually win the Nobel Prize. So I was like somebody who got recognized for their work, let's go. So that's who we're doing today. We're doing Gustaf Dalén and ⁓ Nobel Prize winner and lighthouse engineer, I guess Maria Sisneroz (08:23) Random, I'm very curious where this is gonna go. ⁓ Aarati Asundi (08:26) Yeah, it is very random. It is definitely, like, not what you would expect someone to win the Nobel Prize for, but that's what makes it so interesting. So let's get into his life. Nils Gustaf Dalén was born in Stenstorp in a small village in Skasborg, Sweden. No, Skarasborg, Sweden. Skaraborg, Sweden. I'm going to get it. Skaraborg, Sweden. Maria Sisneroz (08:55) You what that sounds like? Aarati Asundi (08:55) What, Skaraborg? Maria Sisneroz (8:59) Sounds like...Skarsgård . Aarati Asundi (9:01) It did sound that... see that I know, Skarsgård . Yes. Maria Sisneroz (9:03) Because I'm like, I can pronounce Skarsgård . So it's probably similar. Aarati Asundi (9:06) Yeah. Which is what I was trying to say. And then I was like, that's wrong. It's not Skarsgård . And I was, so I was trying to say Skar... Skaraborg, Skaraborg. I'm trying to say Skaraborg, but it became Skarsborg, which I was like, that's not right. Cause I was trying to say Skarsgård . Maria Sisneroz (9:24) okay. Anyway, Skar.. Skaraborg. Aarati Asundi (9:26) Yeah. Yes. So he was born in Skaraborg, Sweden. Yeah, Skaraborg, Sweden on November 30th, 1869. His mother was Lovisa Dalén. Oh, sorry. Lovisa Dalén. And his fa... No, it's like the E has an accent over it. So, like, I have to remember to say it's not Dalen. It looks like Dalen, but it's Dalén because it's Swedish. So his mother was Lovisa Dalén and his father Anders Johansson was a farmer. Gustaf was the fourth of five children. And interestingly, all of the children took their mother's maiden name as their last name, which I didn't think was a thing in the 1860s. But I don't know. I was trying to look into this and like some AI thing said, this was super common for Swedish people in the 1800s. And I'm like, was it though? Like, you know, where, are you getting this information? I don't know. Maria Sisneroz (10:26) Oh! In Sweden, a child's surname is typically the mother's unless the parents choose a different surname. Aarati Asundi (10:32) See, that's what I read, but then I couldn't find more, like when I tried to dig a little bit further on that. Maria Sisneroz (10:39) That's just the default. If parents don't specify a surname, the child will be given the mother's surname. Parents can choose a different surname for their child, such as the father's surname, or create a new surname using one of the parent's names followed by son or daughter. Aarati Asundi (10:53) Okay, I need Swedish people to like chime in on this because I've never heard of this and I feel like that would be something that would kind of be one of those random facts of the world that I would know, but I don't, I've never heard of this. So is this true? Maria Sisneroz (11:09) Weird. Yeah, I'm gonna send you this link, but you can read it. But yes, it looks like there have been a lot of random laws. Aarati Asundi (11:16) Yeah, okay. It was pretty much automatically expected that the children of this family would one day take over running the farm. So from a young age, that's what Gustaf was being brought up to do. But his mother wanted Gustaf and his siblings to have a good education. So they were all sent to school as well. But Gustaf wasn't really interested in his classes and his teachers noticed this. They were not happy with his academic grades. And he was just a lot more interested in helping his father on the farm. And he liked to invent things to improve their lives on the farm. So for example, when he was 13, he rigged an alarm clock so that 15 minutes before it was supposed to ring and wake them all up in the morning, a cylinder would start to spin that would strike a match and light a gas oil lamp under a kettle of coffee. that 15 minutes later when the alarm clock rang the family had hot coffee ready and waiting for them. And he also developed an automatic threshing machine using an old spinning wheel, which they would use to collect grains. Know what this reminded me of? This reminded me of ⁓ in middle school when we had to build Rube Goldberg machines. Maria Sisneroz (12:34) Literally what I was thinking as well. Yep... Aarati Asundi (12:36) Right? Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (12:36) 100%. Like I was like, my gosh, this is, I remember a Rube Goldberg machine that did that or something very similar to that. Fascinating. Aarati Asundi (12:45) Yeah, so that's essentially, I feel like what he was doing. He was making little Rube Goldberg machines that would make all these things happen. As he grew into a young adult, he was still planning to take over the family farm. So he enrolled in a school of agriculture to study gardening and dairy farming. By the time he was 20, Gustaf had essentially taken over the farm. He was able to use what he learned to expand the farm to include a dairy and a small garden for growing produce and seeds that could be sold at the local market. He also continued to invent things, including a milking machine and a And he started to develop connections with other people in the agricultural machinery and industry world. When he was 23, he invented a milk fat tester, he could use to determine the quality of milk before selling it at the market. And this was an invention he was really excited by. He thought that it was pretty novel. And so he took it to Stockholm to show it to, a pretty famous engineer and industrialist, Gustaf de Laval. And I think Gustaf was hoping to see maybe if he could commercialize it. But it turns out that de Laval had already invented something similar and he already had a patent for it. So he couldn't commercialize it, de Laval recognized that Gustaf had a clear talent for inventing. So he told Gustaf, you should really go back to school and get a more technical education. So Gustaf, although he was initially disappointed that his invention hadn't been novel and it had already been patented he decided to take de Laval's advice, hoping that eventually he would be able to get a job in de Laval's company. That same year, he decided to sell the farm and he enrolled in the Chalmers Institute at Gothenburg to study engineering and applied physics graduated with a doctorate. Maria Sisneroz (14:48) which he kind of was already doing. Aarati Asundi (14:50) Yeah, he kind of was. He was like already an amateur physicist slash engineer. Yeah. And I guess DeLaval was like, you need to like get a degree behind that. You need to like get some real solid technical learning and then we can do something with you. Yeah. So he graduated with a doctorate in 1896. And then again, acting on the advice of Gustaf de Laval, he went to Switzerland to spend a year working under Professor Aurel Stodola, a professor of mechanical engineering at the Swiss in Zurich. He returned home briefly before leaving home for good in 1898. And then he went to Stockholm and joined de Laval's steam turbine company and worked on steam turbines and compressors. And at the same time, he and a classmate of his, Henry Celsing teamed up and founded their own engineering company that was particularly focused on the technical applications and control of gases. So Gustaf and Henry were particularly interested in acetylene gas, which is a hydrocarbon. That means that it's made up of hydrogen and carbon atoms. It's a colorless gas that's highly flammable and easy to ignite. And when it burns, it produces a really bright white light. So just a few years earlier in 1895, people had discovered how to make acetylene gas on a commercial scale. So now people are trying to see if they could use acetylene for lighting and heating because it burns so much brighter than petroleum, which is what they were all using up to that point. And in fact, Gustaf and Henry Celsing were able to create a new way of producing and using acetylene gas to light street lamps, which they were able to sell to the town of Angelholm. But the biggest challenge of using acetylene was how to store and transport it. So with petroleum, you can compress it in these large iron containers and keep it or move it around pretty safely. But with acetylene gas, if you try to store it under pressure, even the slightest shock to the container causes it to explode. Yeah, so not good. So then in 1896, two French chemists named Georges Claude and Albert Hess discovered that acetylene could be dissolved in acetone. And acetone is a pretty well-known chemical solvent. Like we use it today all the time in nail polish remover and paint thinner because it dissolves away paints and varnishes. But when it came to dissolving acetylene gas in acetone, I'm thinking it's more like soda because in soda, you have carbon dioxide gas, which has been dissolved into the liquid part of the beverage at high pressure. And then when you release the pressure, the soda begins to fizz because all the carbon dioxide bubbles are being released. And I think that's kind of like the same thing that's happening with the acetylene gas being dissolved into liquid acetone. And so Claude and Hess realized that when they did this, when the acetylene gas is inside the acetone, it's no longer as explosive. So the acetone was somehow stabilizing the acetylene gas. And so they were like, great. Maybe we can store it this way. We can dissolve it in acetone and it won't explode. Fantastic. Except the problem was that if there was any space at all in the container, the acetylene gas would escape from the acetone and form a layer above the liquid. And this layer of gas was, again, super explosive. So even if they filled the container all the way to the tippy tippy top with this acetone and acetylene mixture, if someone used part of it and just closed the container and tried to store it, the acetylene gas would accumulate in the empty part of the container at the top. And you're back to having this thing that could explode really easily. Maria Sisneroz (19:06) I feel like this is a Looney Tunes cartoon. ⁓ Aarati Asundi (19:09) It kind of is. Maria Sisneroz (19:12) I don't know why that came into my head. just like, one of those kind of ridiculous things where it's like, yeah, we have a solution now. Gotcha! Still just as explosive. Aarati Asundi (19:22) Yeah, it's like, yeah, like no matter what you do, even if you take the like dynamite stick away from the wick, it's like, and the wick still explodes somehow. Yeah, it's like you thought you were safe, but you're not. ⁓ Maria Sisneroz (19:37) It's like Wile E. Coyote. ⁓ Aarati Asundi (19:39) Exactly. That's exactly what it is. So Claude and Hess are still working on this, and they figured out that instead of pouring the acetone-acetylene solution into a completely empty container, if they first filled the container with some sort of porous material, so like a material that has a bunch of tiny little holes, and then they poured the acetylene-acetylene solution into that material, you could avoid that problem of having a layer of acetylene gas accumulate. And so then when some of the solution was used, because the porous material is physically taking up the space and preventing that accumulation of large pockets of acetylene gas, it wouldn't explode. So this was the idea in theory, but in practice, it was kind of difficult to figure this out because you needed a porous material that wouldn't dissolve or break down when you poured acetone, which is a commercial solvent, onto it. Maria Sisneroz (20:42) Mm-hmm. Aarati Asundi (20:43) And you needed something that was also elastic enough that wouldn't break or crack if you dropped the container because if you had a big crack form, the acetylene gas could accumulate in that crack. And then again, you're back to exploding containers. So not, you know... so that's, that's kind of where they're at. They have this idea that this possibly could work, but like what material can they use? So in 1901, Gustaf's company buys the patent from the French chemists for this idea of having a porous material containing the acetylene acetone solution. And he starts trying to come up with a porous material that would work. And he develops a porous mass that consisted of a bunch of things, including cement, coal, asbestos, diatomaceous earth. Maria Sisneroz (21:34) Asbestos, great. Aarati Asundi (21:37) But it fulfilled all the requirements of stabilizing the acetylene acetone solution under pressure and was safe to be transported around. This invention led to the founding of a company called, here we go, Svenska Aktibolget gas accumulator or AGA for short. That's what we're going to call it. Gustaf named the material that he had created Aga after the company's initials. And with this, people can now store and transport acetylene gas safely, which became hugely important because all of this is happening before electricity became widely accessible. And so in addition to street lamps, one really big potential market for using acetylene lighting was lighthouses and ocean buoys. Maria Sisneroz (22:32) Make sense. Aarati Asundi (22:33) Do you see how it all connects? Maria Sisneroz (22:34) I do. Aarati Asundi (22:38) Yes. And this is especially the case in Sweden because Sweden has a huge coastline and so a lot of shipping and fishing activities happening there. In this case, acetylene flames, which were much brighter than petroleum flames, were easier to see and overall made things much safer for maritime activity. But many of the lighthouses and buoys are in remote areas which are difficult to access. So Gustaf's Aga material made it safe to transport the acetylene to these locations and leave them there unattended for many months without fear of having the acetylene explode. Maria Sisneroz (23:14) Explode? Aarati Asundi (23:16) So yeah, exactly. So this in itself was a game changer, but Gustaf came up with two more huge improvements to lighthouse lights that helped really cement his fame. So originally, lighthouses and buoys had continuously burning petroleum or acetylene flames. But this could be confusing to ships who might see the light and think it was the headlights of another ship. So people started building structures around lighthouse lights that would either revolve or somehow block the light intermittently so that the light would flash. And that way you could tell the difference between a steady ship light and a flashing lighthouse light. However, what Gustaf did was he invented something called the Dalén light, which was an apparatus that had a pilot light that was continuously on and then a valve that automatically opened and closed to deliver acetylene gas to the pilot light causing intermittent flares or flashes of bright light. So Gustaf's apparatus allowed for that blinking to occur while also significantly reducing the amount of gas you needed because you no longer needed like a continuous, Maria Sisneroz (24:29) Constant... yeah Aarati Asundi (24:30) Yeah, it's like now intermittent pulses. In a speech by Professor H.G. Soderbaum, who was president of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1912, he said that before at most one liter of gas could deliver up to 50 flashes of lights. But with Gustaf's apparatus, it became several thousand flashes of light. Maria Sisneroz (24:52) That's pretty good! Aarati Asundi (24:55) So yeah, huge, huge improvement. And also the apparatus could be adjusted to deliver distinct flashes so that you could send simple messages using Morse code or so that each lighthouse could have their own distinct pattern, which I imagine would be really helpful if you were a ship trying to navigate. Maria Sisneroz (25:12) You know what's interesting is that's what they do for like aircrafts now. So they have like these different... Aarati Asundi (25:20) With like air towers? Maria Sisneroz (25:21) Not air towers, but it... I don't remember the exact terminology for like...let's consider them like navigation beacons. So we're to call them. That's not the correct terminology, but you can get onto the frequency for that beacon and then there's just like Morse code. You just hear like sounds and based on whether or not that Morse code is right, you can tell like which beacon you are like... Aarati Asundi (25:48) you're nearer to or like you can, yeah... Maria Sisneroz (25:48) ...listening to or like what frequency like yeah, if it's like if you're listening to the correct beacon information. So it's interesting because they still use the same concept for navigation like today in modern times because like even if you're looking at a map sometimes ⁓ like let's say there's clouds and you don't actually know and so you need to have a way that's easy to distinguish whether or not you're going the right way or if you're looking at the what you think you're looking at. so having like some kind of code, it doesn't have to be Morse code, but in this case it is. But ⁓ I feel like. Aarati Asundi (26:27) Yeah, yeah, but having something that helps you figure out where you are. Yeah. Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (26:32) Mm-hmm. So it's kind of cool, like, that that same concept has carried over for so long. Aarati Asundi (26:38) Yeah, this is still like the early 1900s, late 1800s. So yeah, it's been... Maria Sisneroz (26:42) Yeah. I kind of wonder like if if they did stuff like that, just like what was Morse code invented? Do you know? Aarati Asundi (26:49) I was actually looking that up and now I forget. I think it was like the 1700s or something. It's like a long time ago. Maria Sisneroz (26:57) I've seen so many movies and shows where knowing Morse code saves someone's life. The one that comes to mind is ⁓ in Star Trek, which I don't watch. But there was just one episode that I happened to see that has stuck with me for my entire life where the person was no longer physically there... Aarati Asundi (27:19) Okay. Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (27:20) ...for some reason, but was able to interact electromagnetically with some light, but only a single light in the entire room. Aarati Asundi (27:29) Oh weird. Maria Sisneroz (27:30) And so they just kept doing like Morse code. And then fortunately someone else knew Morse code and they're like, weird, that's like, that's a pattern. That's, I think that's Morse code. And then they figured out like that the character was like looking, was whatever happened to them and they were asking for help. But it's been in like so many different shows. So I'm like, every time I see it. Oh, like... Aarati Asundi (27:53) Yeah, it has. I think it was in Stranger Things also, like, didn't the kids like send a message from the upside-down into the real world or something through Morse code through blinking the lights? Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (28:04) Yep, Wynona Earp? Aarati Asundi (28:05) So yeah. Yeah. It's, it's literally everywhere. Maria Sisneroz (28:08) Vigil? Vigil, remember how she was inside of the little...in the tube and she was banging with her flashlight with Morse code? ⁓ Aarati Asundi (28:20) Yeah, and I'm pretty sure it's like been in like pretty much every medical show also where like the person is paralyzed except for their finger or something and they could like tap out a message. Maria Sisneroz (28:30) ⁓ And of course, everyone knows Morse code, so... Aarati Asundi (28:34) Yeah, like yeah, of course, of course all the doctors, all the doctors are trained in Morse code. So yeah. Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (28:41) Did you figure out when it was invented? Aarati Asundi (28:44) So, so he was alive in 1791 to 1872, so somewhere in there. Maria Sisneroz (28:51) It's called a NavAid, just so you know. But the cool thing is, for the NavAids, when you have a map, again, we'll just call them a beacon. It helps you to navigate through space. But on the map, it has a dash or a dot. So if you don't know Morse code, if you know what Morse code is, you can read what it stands for. But like, you're listening for a dash, dot, dot, dash, dot, dot. It'll tell you what to listen for on the frequency, which is kind of interesting because then you don't have to know Morse code, you just need to be able to see on the map. ⁓ Aarati Asundi (29:28) Yeah, yeah, technology has progressed. Maria Sisneroz (29:32) Yeah, and they're like, let's make this foolproof. Aarati Asundi (29:36) Yeah, exactly. Yes. Maria Sisneroz (29:39) When was Braille invented? Aarati Asundi (29:41) No idea. Maria Sisneroz (29:43) Because like, did Braille exist before that I'm assuming? Aarati Asundi (29:47) Oh my God, I have such a bad story about that. Maria Sisneroz (29:49) About Braille? Aarati Asundi (29:50) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (29:52) How do you have a bad story about Braille? Aarati Asundi (29:57) Wait, because I did a report in like fourth grade or fifth grade about Louis Braille. Maria Sisneroz (30:02) You did? Aarati Asundi (30:03) Yeah, I did like my report on him, but like for a report, we were supposed to come like dressed up as the person and I'm like...I'm like, how do I even do that? Maria Sisneroz (30:18) Did you have like a cane and did you pretend like you were blind? Aarati Asundi (30:21) No, because I was just like, well, I think I probably had like sunglasses or something. But like, I was like, I guess I'll wear like a button up shirt and like, pants. I don't know, like, how am I supposed to dress up as that person? You know, and then one of my snarky, stupid, boy classmates was like, I didn't realize that these historical figures look so much like our classmates. And I'm like, what do want me to do? I'm an Indian girl trying to impersonate like a French guy from the 1800s. Like what do want from me? And I'm in fourth grade like what the freak? Anyway, sorry super random tangent. Yeah Braille. Braille was probably invented around the same time. Maria Sisneroz (31:02) Interesting. Because I mean, it's obviously very different because Braille, it's not just like, you know, in a line, it's like, Aarati Asundi (31:11) Yeah, but it's still like dot based communication. Maria Sisneroz (31:12) you can have stacks. I know. Aarati Asundi (31:12) ⁓ Yeah, very interesting. Yeah, I wonder if they were influenced by each other maybe. Maria Sisneroz (31:19) I know, or if it was like one of those things, what is that phenomenon called? Where like, and this is not that because Braille and Morse code are fully different, but you know when people in different locations come up with the same idea at the same time? You know that phenomenon? Aarati Asundi (31:34) Oh yeah, I don't know what that's called. Yeah. Are you looking it up? Maria Sisneroz (31:39) That's lame. I thought that there was actually a word for it. Aarati Asundi (31:44) Oh, there's not? Maria Sisneroz (31:44) Simultaneous invention. Multiple discovery. Aarati Asundi (31:48) That's stupid. Maria Sisneroz (31:49) Yeah, that's dumb. They should have come up with a fun name for it, like the Mandela Effect. Aarati Asundi (31:53) ⁓ They really should have. Yeah, they really should have. Maria Sisneroz (31:55) Or like the Bader-Meinhof phenomenon. All those have cool names. Aarati Asundi (31:59) Which,the Bader, I think the Bader-Meinhof one is when you learn about something and you keep seeing it everywhere later, right? Maria Sisneroz (32:06) Yes. Yep. Aarati Asundi (32:07) That happened to me last episode when you were talking about the crabs and I'd never heard of that before. And then all of a sudden I'm like seeing like infographics for it. Like on LinkedIn and stuff, like somebody did like a little cartoon of crabs and I'm like, what? Just talked about that. Maria Sisneroz (32:26) Yeah, the Crab Pot. Aarati Asundi (32:28) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (32:29) It is weird though, because that happens a lot. Aarati Asundi (32:31) It is weird. Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (32:32) But it's just you're noticing it more because you just learned about it and it's been there the whole time. But has it though? Aarati Asundi (32:38) Has it though? Because it was like on LinkedIn on the feed and I'm like I'm just scrolling on LinkedIn and then all of a sudden I see these like cartoons of little crabs and like oh these crabs are in the pot and like they're trying to drag each other down and I'm like we just talked about that. Wait a minute I just learned what that was you, know? Aarati Asundi (33:03) Hi everyone, Aarati here. I hope you're enjoying the podcast. If so, and you wish someone would tell your science story, I founded a science communications company called Sykom, that's S-Y-K-O-M, that can help. Sykom blends creativity with scientific accuracy to create all types of science, communications, content, including explainer videos, slide presentations, science, writing, and more. We work with academic researchers, tech companies, nonprofits, or really any scientists. To help simplify your science, check us out at sykommer.com. That's S-Y-K-O-M-M-E r.com. Back to the story. Aarati Asundi (33:47) Anywho. Maria Sisneroz (33:48) And now we've talked about a lot of different things, very unrelated to lighthouses. Aarati Asundi (33:52) That's fine. We're going back to Gustaf. So Gustaf had invented this valve, right, that could make the light flash intermittently. So that was one of his like big improvements to lighthouses. But he made one more. So in 1907, Gustaf further refined acetylene lighting by designing a solar valve or Solventil, which is the Swedish name for a solar valve. And this is pretty cool. It automatically shuts off gas flow during the daytime, which saved even more gas. So the way it worked is there is a valve that had a dark metal rod surrounded by three lighter colored rods in a glass tube. And when sunlight hits the tube, dark rod absorbs the heat and expands enough to flip a switch that cuts off the gas supply. And at night when the sun sets, the rod cools down and shrinks, which releases the switch. So this was also highly effective on cloudy or misty days when it was still technically daylight, but the sun was blocked. Maria Sisneroz (35:03) Mm-hmm. Aarati Asundi (35:03) And this was extremely reliable. Actually, the system was super efficient and very economical in the way that it used gas. So Sweden began installing them all over the coastline, including really remote or difficult to access lighthouses and buoys. Because once the system was installed, it could reliably work for up to a year without human intervention. Maria Sisneroz (35:27) Pretty good. Aarati Asundi (35:29) Yeah, that's really good. And they were also so much cheaper to install and maintain than previous lighthouse apparatuses. read one source that said it went from an installation cost of 200,000 Kroner down to 9,000, which is over 20 times cheaper. And then maintenance costs went from 25,000 Kroner a year down to about 60, which is over 400 times cheaper. So really a no-brainer if you're thinking about installing these things. And of course, because it's relying on acetylene gas, it directly led to maritime safety and saved countless lives because the light is so much brighter. Maria Sisneroz (36:16) Oh my gosh, hold on. A massive ship carrying 200 people just hit the Brooklyn Bridge? Aarati Asundi (36:25) What? Maria Sisneroz (36:28) Search and rescue operations are underway. Aarati Asundi (36:32) Oh my gosh! Mexican Navy sailing ship crashes into Brooklyn Bridge. Oh my goodness! Maria Sisneroz (36:35) I don't know how to make it... Aarati Asundi (36:45) Whoa. That's crazy. And we're literally talking about that right now. Maria Sisneroz (36:54) I know! About ships. Aarati Asundi (36:55) We're literally talking about ships and lighthouses right now. Oh my gosh, that's insane. Maria Sisneroz (37:03) But those are the kinds of things. Aarati Asundi (37:05) Yeah, by the time this comes out, we'll probably know a lot more about it because we're recording in advance, of course, you know, but that's crazy. I hope everyone's okay. Maria Sisneroz (37:14) I know! But like, don't you know that you're coming up on the Brooklyn Bridge? It's kind of big. Aarati Asundi (37:22) And it's covered in lights. Maria Sisneroz (37:24) Yeah! ⁓ Aarati Asundi (37:24) Could it... but this, is like the same, a similar, what's the little bridge that this just happened to like last year? Where a ship lost control. Maria Sisneroz (37:35) Oh yeah. But it was a cargo ship, like that was a big ass ship. Aarati Asundi (37:39) What bridge was that? Maria Sisneroz (37:43) Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore collapsed after being struck by the container ship, Dali. Aarati Asundi (37:45) That's right, Francis Scott Key. Francis Scott Key Bridge. That's right. Maria Sisneroz (37:52) It experienced a power outage and veered off course. Aarati Asundi (37:54) Yeah, I wonder if something similar happened. I wonder if something like that happened where they lost control of the ship somehow. Maria Sisneroz (38:00) Two people died. Aarati Asundi (38:02) Oh no. That's so sad. Maria Sisneroz (38:07) ⁓ They experienced mechanical issues. Aarati Asundi (38:10) Mm, there you go. Maria Sisneroz (38:13) Supposedly. Anyhoo, back to the story. Aarati Asundi (38:16) Okay. Yeah, that's a super, relevant and super sad current event that just literally happened while we're talking about this. Okay. So these inventions, of course, made Gustaf's company a huge success. In 1909, Gustaf was appointed managing director of AGA and word about his invention started spreading around the world. In 1911, his company signed a deal to provide a lighting system for the Panama Canal. So Gustaf is really riding high and continuing experimenting with a acetylene gas and lighting systems. But then one fateful day in 1912, Gustaf was testing... Maria Sisneroz (39:00) Oh no. Aarati Asundi (39:03) That fateful day... that one fateful day, Gustaf is testing how much pressure a heated gas cylinder could tolerate when something went wrong with the test. So they stopped the test and they waited for a few minutes for things to presumably settle down. And then Gustaf headed over to examine the cylinder that was having problems and all of a sudden the cylinder exploded. Gustaf was severely injured and nearly died, and this accident left him permanently blinded. Maria Sisneroz (39:36) Oh my gosh, it's so weird we're talking about Braille. Aarati Asundi (39:39) Right? And such a... So many random connections. Maria Sisneroz (39:43) That's super random though. Aarati Asundi (39:46) It's like one of those things that you talk about enough random things, it's gonna, it's gonna come up again. Is that what we're doing? Maria Sisneroz (39:52) Kind of. Wow, so did he have burns or anything? Aarati Asundi (39:56) I think so. It took him a really long time to recover. Like his injuries were extensive. And like I said, he nearly died. So. Maria Sisneroz (40:05) Now I want to see what he looks like. Do they have pictures of him? Aarati Asundi (40:10) All the pictures I found of him, they're like black and white pictures, obviously, but he's wearing these like really dark sunglasses all the time. Maria Sisneroz (40:17) Oh interesting. Man that is a mustache. Aarati Asundi (40:22) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (40:23) Those are interesting glasses. Aarati Asundi (40:26) They are, they're not like typical sunglasses. They're like almost like goggles that are sunglasses. Maria Sisneroz (40:34) No. They look like... they're like...Sun goggles. ⁓ Aarati Asundi (40:39) Sun goggles. Did you know my grandma calls sunglasses goggles? Maria Sisneroz (40:43) Oh really? That's funny. Aarati Asundi (40:45) Yeah, I think it's cute. Yeah, so he's he's permanently blinded by this explosion. So like when I was reading about him, one of Gustaf's defining traits was optimism, but this was one of the only times in his life that he sunk into a very deep depression and he thought his career was over basically. Like what can you do? However, just two months later, the Karolinska Institute announced that Gustaf Dalén was the winner of the 1912 Nobel Prize in Physics. Maria Sisneroz (41:16) Hey. ⁓ Aarati Asundi (41:18) Yeah, so he just went from nearly dying to being like Nobel Prize winner. What a crazy roller coaster that must have been. Maria Sisneroz (41:28) Was he healed yet? Aarati Asundi (41:30) No, he was not. So he's still recovering when he gets this news. But.. Maria Sisneroz (41:35) Because you said it took him a while, right? Aarati Asundi (41:37) It took him a long while. Yeah. So I don't know exactly how long it took him, but like I think probably several months, if not to a couple of years to fully recover. Yeah, so I think what I thought was interesting about this was a lot of people drew parallels between Gustaf's accident and Alfred Nobel himself, who was also affected by an accidental explosion in his life, which I covered in the very first episode of this podcast. So if this is your first time listening, go back and listen to Alfred Nobel's story because that's crazy. But you're right, like since Gustaf was still recovering from this explosion, he couldn't attend the actual Nobel Prize ceremony. So instead his brother, ⁓ who ironically was an ophthalmologist and... Maria Sisneroz (42:26) Oh gosh. Aarati Asundi (42:28) Yeah. So his brother was an ophthalmologist and professor at the Karolinska Institute went to the ceremony on Gustaf's behalf to accept the prize. And in his speech, he said, quote, it is generally difficult to interpret another person's feelings with certainty. And I will not attempt to reproduce here what my brother felt when he received the news that a Nobel prize had been awarded to him. This much I feel I must say, however, that award greatly pleased him and that it has contributed in some measure to keeping his spirits up after the serious misfortune which has befallen him. I also believe I can assure you with certainty that it will in the future be a powerful incentive for him to continue his work in the field in which he has hitherto worked and where his efforts have now been crowned with the Nobel prize." But what I thought was really interesting about this particular Nobel Prize and one of the reasons I wanted to cover this story is because unlike most of the prizes awarded for physics, Gustaf didn't win it because he made a particularly novel breakthrough in terms of like physics technology. Lighthouses existed already, gas valves existed already. ⁓ Even the idea for dissolving and storing the acetylene in acetone was created by somebody else, like somebody else had that idea. He just managed to put it into practice. So all of these ideas were not his. But the reason he was chosen was that when Alfred Nobel set up the prizes, he said that the award should go to those who quote, "conferred the greatest benefit to humankind," end quote. And that's what Gustaf's lighting systems did. It didn't particularly advance our knowledge of physics or create some like stunning new technology, but it helped keep so many people safe and alive and very affordably. So it confer a great benefit to humankind. So it's one of the few Nobel prizes I think that's not, was not awarded for like a breakthrough in science, per se. So eventually Gustaf did recover and although he's now blind, he found that he could actually continue to do his duties at AGA and keep working on his inventions. He used the Nobel Prize money to give all the employees at AGA an extra week's worth of wages. And he set up a scholarship at the Chalmers Institute where he got his physics degree. Maria Sisneroz (45:06) What a nice guy. Aarati Asundi (45:09) I know. I feel like this is a recurring theme in a lot of the Nobel Prize winners that we've seen is like they give it away somehow or they set up a scholarship or something like really selfless, which I love. In the 1920s, the AGA company ran into financial difficulties and Gustaf bascially lost his fortune, but he remained optimistic. He even wore a pin on his lapel that said, "Be an optimist" and handed out similar pins to anyone he thought might need a little boost in their spirit. He also said, quote, "I have so much to be thankful for. Here I have my phones linking me with my business associates and friends. Necessity has taught me how to conduct my researches without my eyes. There's always someone at home to read to me. And after that, I have my radio. The theater is one of my favorite recreations." And his days of inventing were not over. So he had one more really big invention up his sleeve that came about thanks to his wife, Elma. Elma was Gustaf's childhood sweetheart, and they had gotten married in 1901, and they had two sons and two daughters. Because of his blindness, Gustaf was spending a lot more time at home recovering, and so he would be overhearing Elma cooking and then complaining about how difficult it was to use her stove. It was a coal fired cooking range that was very dirty because it produced a lot of soot that sometimes fell into the food, but it was also dangerous and she constantly had to stand there and watch the food so it didn't burn and it just took up a lot of her time like standing there and trying to keep everything clean and like not set things on fire. So she's complaining a lot. So Gustaf is overhearing this and he began thinking about a new type of stove that would be easier for her to use. And he designed a cast iron oven that was heated by a single heat source, like a gas flame. And it had multiple hot plates that could be kept at different temperatures and two boxes that acted like ovens so that you could cook multiple dishes at the same time and have better control over heating. The cooker only needed to be topped up once with fuel a day and it could stay on for full 24 hours. So it was quite a revolution in cooking. Gustaf invented this in 1922 and it quickly became one of the most popular household appliances for home cooks. It was introduced to Great Britain in 1929 and it really reached peak popularity after World War II with the AGA Company introducing different colors and different models with various oven compartments. By 1948, over 100,000 cookers were being sold worldwide and it actually became sort of iconic. In the 1950s, Aga actually moved production from Sweden to the UK, it's almost become part of the culture there. So for anyone who watches the Great British Bake Off, I don't know if you do, but Arun and I do, one of the judges, Paul Hollywood, on the show has an Aga, and he did an interview for Aga Living, which is a magazine. And he said, quote, the AGA will always be the core of the house. Even when it's not on, people will congregate around it. It's a bizarre thing. It's in the psyche. If you go to someone's house and see an AGA, you gravitate towards it. I love the AGA. I love the look. love the tradition." So it's really like, were talking about before. ⁓ Once I learned about this, I started seeing it everywhere. Like the AGA stove is in all of these like kind of country homes or traditional homes. Like anyone on TikTok or Instagram who's trying to show like country living or like, you know, kind of more traditional type of living, they have this AGA stove. Maria Sisneroz (49:08) The first thing I thought of was, did they have one in Bly Manor? Aarati Asundi (49:13) in Bly Manor I would imagine. Cause that's like literally exactly what we're talking about. Maria Sisneroz (49:18) I know, I'm like, they must've. Aarati Asundi (49:21) Because the way it looks and everything, it's also kind of like very traditional kind of like old cottage home country type of look. Maria Sisneroz (49:31) in the UK. They must have. Now I have to like watch it and see if they did. Aarati Asundi (49:36) And look for it? And it would also make a lot of sense ⁓ if you're like cooking for a manor or something, you would want to be cooking multiple dishes at a time, have multiple like hot plates to keep food warm and stuff. So it would make a lot of sense. Oh and then another one of the original judges on the show, Mary Berry, wrote an Aga cookbook and she said that "If I had to live without one, I'd loathe it." So it is still around today and now models can run on electricity, but it is still made of cast iron. And I read that their lightest one weighs about 400 kilograms or over 880 pounds. And it can take three days to install. In some cases, you have to like reinforce the floor because it's such a heavy oven. It's like fully cast iron. Maria Sisneroz (50:27) Oh my gosh. That's wild. I'd like to try to cook in one of those. I'm now I'm curious, like what makes it so good. But I mean, it also makes you think about like just cooking in general. cause I had an cooktop for a long time when I was younger. Aarati Asundi (50:45) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (50:45) And then when I go to my mom's house, she has like induction heating, which I get why people like induction heating, but it, you can't beat a gas stove. Aarati Asundi (50:57) Yeah, I think my mom and grandmother also prefer gas stoves. And so now I've just become used to that because that's what they prefer. And so that's what I'm cooking on as well. Maria Sisneroz (51:09) Induction heating...Does that go on electricity? That's electric, right? It's still technically electric. Aarati Asundi (51:15) It's electromagnetism. Maria Sisneroz (51:18) But it uses electricity. Aarati Asundi (51:20) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (51:21) So like if your electricity is out, because I think that happened to my parents. The electricity was out so they couldn't cook. Aarati Asundi (51:25) Correct. Yeah. Yeah, because it uses like alternating electric currents to create a magnetic field that cooks your food basically. Maria Sisneroz (51:33) Or heats up the element that you your food in. Yeah. Aarati Asundi (51:36) Yeah, it heats up the pan that cooks your food. So again, this is like one of those things where I like I had no idea that AGA ovens were a thing. And now that I know it's like literally everywhere. I see them everywhere. And I'm like, my gosh, this is really like, this is like if you are super serious about cooking slash super rich, you want an AGA oven. So Gustaf remained at AGA for the rest of his life. He also got involved in the local city council where he held a chair for years in Lidingo, which is the town where he lived. In 1913, he was inducted into the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences. And in 1919, he became a member of the Swedish Academy of Science and Engineering. In 1933, he won the Morehead Medal named after John Motley Morehead III, who was the person who discovered acetylene. And I was looking into this medal, like I don't know anyone else who has won this medal. So it's like, which makes sense... Maria Sisneroz (52:45) It's fake. ⁓ Aarati Asundi (52:46) Because I'm like, okay, so he discovered acetylene and so now Gustaf did something more with acetylene and then that's it. I guess, I don't know. In 1937, Gustaf passed away in his home from cancer at the age of 68. And his oldest son, Gunnar, took over the AGA Company. So that's his story, the end. Maria Sisneroz (53:14) That's a much happier ending. I'm glad. Aarati Asundi (53:16) It is. It was a much more dramatic life in terms of like, well, I don't know about more dramatic actually, Kristian Birkeland's life was pretty dramatic. Maria Sisneroz (53:26) Pretty dramatic. Aarati Asundi (53:27) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (53:28) With all the accidents and stuff. Aarati Asundi (53:30) Yes, equally dramatic. But like, I also feel like this is also, again, kind of a testament to how much your outlook can change things because Kristian Birkeland kind of sunk into a depression, whereas Gustaf was resolutely optimistic no matter what was happening. Maria Sisneroz (53:50) He did win a Nobel Prize. I'm kidding. Aarati Asundi (53:54) He did. That's true. No one was standing in his way. But like you said also, doesn't seem like he drove people away from him as much. Like he married his childhood sweetheart and you know, they stayed together. They had kids and you know, he started a company with like a friend of his, like not some random industrialist, like an actual friend of his. So maybe a much better support group, let's say, than Kristian Birkeland had. Maria Sisneroz (54:22) I read a book recently that was like really sad. It's called The Unfinished Line. Aarati Asundi (54:29) Why were you reading this? Maria Sisneroz (54:31) Because I love the author. She's just a really good writer. It was just like a really powerful book about mental health and how you never know what's really going on inside someone's head and like, much is going on underneath that you'll never be able to see someone who is dealing with a lot of like mental health issues. I was like, wow, it was a really powerful book. Aarati Asundi (54:53) Although depressing, very powerful. Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (54:54) It was really sad, though. It was really sad. Because you get like so attached to the characters and yeah. Aarati Asundi (55:01) But that's such an important conversation, I think, to have in such Maria Sisneroz (55:04) Like when you're in a really bad spot from a mental health perspective, the things that you're thinking don't make any sense. Like you don't realize it in the moment, but some of the things you tell yourself don't make any sense. so like Aarati Asundi (55:18) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (55:18) And so like, it was really good. It's a really good book. It's like one of my favorite like books that I actually hate. Aarati Asundi (55:26) Yes, it's like Bridge to Terabithia for me. Maria Sisneroz (55:30) Oh god no. Aarati Asundi (55:31) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (55:32) You gave me that book and I read it on a plane and I was literally bawling on the plane. Aarati Asundi (55:36) I know you told me that. I'm like, I never told you to read it on a plane. I just snuck it into your bag. Because I was like, this is exactly one of those. It's one of those books that's like really good, but also really, really terrible and sad. Maria Sisneroz (55:55) Yeah. Fortunately this one was not, I'm glad that this was not a sad story. Aarati Asundi (55:58) Yeah, I'm glad that he could remain optimistic and he had a really good support system around him that helped him through it. And I thought it was kind of cute that he was handing out pins to everybody saying like, Here's a pin. It says be happy. yeah. Maria Sisneroz (56:13) Says the blind person who lost their fortune. Aarati Asundi (56:16) Exactly. If a blind person who lost their fortune is telling you that, you know, life's pretty good, I mean, it's pretty good advice, you got to take it, right? Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (56:26) Yeah, obviously he made it through. Have you ever heard about the gene, ⁓ the warrior versus warrior? Aarati Asundi (56:35) Gene? Maria Sisneroz (56:35) I can't remember if I talked to you about this. So worrier, W-O-R-R-I-E-R versus warrior, W-A-R-R. Aarati Asundi (56:43) ⁓ worrier versus warrior. Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (56:44) Correct. Like So I had a doctor at one point. It was like pay for service kind of place. So like they did a bunch of different tests. So I had this one test done or it was like a blood draw to do a panel of tests. And so they do a bunch of genetic testing on you to see like what medications would work well, which actually has been very good for me because it's like, ⁓ as you get put on different types of medications, like I know what pain medication should work for me based on like genetics. It's actually, it was a really cool like test. What kinds of like psychiatric medication can help you or like, you know, all different kinds of things. But one of the things that tests for is for this gene that determines if you are a warrior or a worrier. Aarati Asundi (57:35) I didn't know that was genetics. Maria Sisneroz (57:38) I mean, genetically, you know, there's always like a balance, right? So. Aarati Asundi (57:40) Yeah, between nature and nurture, but yeah. Maria Sisneroz (57:43) Correct. But apparently this is something where you're more predisposed toward being a worrier versus someone who will just fight through. Aarati Asundi (57:53) interesting. Huh, I did not know that. Maria Sisneroz (57:54) Yeah, and so I am a warrior. And then it's funny because... I do. Aarati Asundi (58:08) Warrior you fight through? I could have told you that. Maria Sisneroz (58:03) Yeah, apparently I have a genetic predisposition. And then Laura is a worrier, which, Aarati Asundi (58:09) Yep, I could have told you that too. Maria Sisneroz (58:11) yeah. But it's very interesting. So it's the terms warrior gene and worrier gene are often used to describe variations in the COMT gene, which influences how the brain processes dopamine. Aarati Asundi (58:24) That is fascinating. my goodness. That makes total sense too. Maria Sisneroz (58:29) yeah, it does. Specifically, the COMT gene has variants like MET 158 and VAL 158 that affect the activity of the COMT enzyme, breaks down dopamine in the brain. Individuals with the Warrior gene variant, A, Warrior, tend to have higher COMT activity, while those with the Warrior with an O gene variant have lower activity impacting their stress response and how they perform under pressure. Aarati Asundi (58:54) So depending on like... so if you're a warrior, you're more sensitive, quote unquote, to dopamine. dopamine makes you feel good and happy, right? So it gives you that kind of boost to make you fight through. And if you're a worrier, you don't get that dopamine hit. And so you're just kind of anxious and sad. Maria Sisneroz (59:13) It's interesting enzyme breaks down epinephrine, norepinephrine and dopamine. Hold on, I am actually curious more about what this is. But it's something to read about. It's very interesting. Aarati Asundi (59:26) Yeah, that's really interesting. So Kristian Birkeland was probably a worrier. Maria Sisneroz (59:31) Exactly, that's where I was going with that. Aarati Asundi (59:33) Gustaf was a warrior. He fought through. Maria Sisneroz (59:37) Yeah, but it is interesting to know, like, and I mean, we've talked about this in the past, I think even in the last one, how you're born the way you are, and you're wired a certain way to process things in a specific way. And sometimes that helps you and sometimes that impedes you. Aarati Asundi (59:56) Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (59:57) I kind of wonder if our last guy, had some mental health issues like just.... Aarati Asundi (1:00:03) Mm hmm. Birkeland, yeah. Maria Sisneroz (1:00:04) I'm sure that all of that stuff and then maybe some other personality. Maybe like, kind of like a low level personality disorder or something like that. That impacted his relationships with others. Aarati Asundi (1:00:14) Yeah, undiagnosed because it was the 1800s. Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (1:00:17 Yeah, versus like, Dalen? Dalen? Yeah. Aarati Asundi (1:00:21) Dalyan, Dalyan, Gustaf. Maria Sisneroz (1:00:24) Yeah. Like he obviously had good relationships with people, so like he probably did not have as many mental health issues. I would assume that the dip that he had was it was situation dependent versus like kind of Aarati Asundi (1:00:38) And totally justifiable. Yeah. Maria Sisneroz (1:00:39) ongoing low level. Yeah, exactly. Like low level, like man, Part of it is just what he's predisposed to. So it's kind of cool to see different trajectories and like where people go and like think about in the context of like, who are you? How are you wired? Yeah, very different people. Aarati Asundi (1:00:55) Yeah. it's very interesting. Maria Sisneroz (1:00:57) Yeah, very different people. Aarati Asundi (1:00:59) Yeah. Very different. Maria Sisneroz (1:01:01) But still both made an impact. Aarati Asundi (1:01:02) Technically both nominated for the Nobel Prize, although only one won. Maria Sisneroz (1:01:08) Thanks for listening. you have a suggestion for a story we should cover or thoughts you want to share about an episode, reach out to us at smartteapodcast.com. You can follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and bluesky at SmartTPodcast and listen to us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. And leave a rating or comment. It helps us grow. New episodes are released every other Wednesday. See you next time.