Aarati: 0:12 Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Smart Tea Podcast, where we talk about the lives of scientists and innovators who shape the world. How are you doing, Arpita? Arpita: 0:20 I'm feeling kind of slow today. Like it's so cold and rainy and I feel like it's making me feel like I just want to cuddle up in my bed and hold a cat and not do very much else. Aarati: 0:32 Yeah, it is. Arpita: 0:34 What about you? Aarati: 0:35 Yeah, we've been hunkering down over here too. I did, go to San Francisco this weekend. I was, like, visiting my cousins, but since it was raining, we couldn't really, like, do a whole bunch of stuff, so we just kind of, like, hung out at this cafe, and then we ended up going to this really random shop called Paxton's Gate, and it was full of, like, witchy things. It was really very interesting. Like, if you want a skeleton of anything, that's where you go, apparently, to get like, you know, rodent skeletons or bird skeletons, right? I was like, how did I end up here? My cousin was like, let's just go into this store real quick. Arpita: 1:20 Where was it? Aarati: 1:21 I, it's, it was in The Mission. Um, Arpita: 1:24 I was just going to say, I feel like I've seen this story in The Mission. Is it on Valencia? Aarati: 1:28 Yeah, yeah, it is and it's like it has all these crystals and it was so funny because like we had gone to this bookstore and we had gone to one other store, but I was feeling really proud of myself I was like, I haven't I haven't bought anything and I'm being so good with my money Like I'm so responsible and then of all places in this like random witchy store. I broke down and I there was like a section that had vacuum sealed tumblers that had like chemistry molecules all over it and it said"The Chemistry of Tea" and there was one that had"The Chemistry of Coffee" and they had all these molecules that you find in tea and coffee there was a whiskey one and there was a beer one and I was just like. Oh my gosh, well, this is perfect for my nerdy little brother who does not have a tumbler and loves all things chemistry. And I was like, yeah, you, you made me break down, you witchy store. You did it. You worked your magic on me. Arpita: 2:32 Is he coffee or tea? Aarati: 2:34 He's tea. We're all Arpita: 2:35 tea. He's tea. You're all a tea family. Aarati: 2:37 Yeah, well my my grandma and my parents will drink coffee in the morning, but then afterwards they'll drink tea. Arpita: 2:44 They all switched to tea. Aarati: 2:45 Yeah, but me and my brother are tea all the way Arpita: 2:48 That's so funny. I Didn't realize that caffeine sensitivity was genetic until Logan told me Because I will drink one cup of coffee and then I'll drink maybe a second one around 10 a. m. If I'm still feeling a little sleepy But Logan doesn't drink coffee at all because he's really caffeine sensitive and so like if he's really feeling like he wants to focus then he will drink a little bit or drink matcha Um, but he's not at a baseline for caffeine and it's so fascinating to me I'm, like what's it like being better than the rest of us because I can't relate to that Aarati: 3:27 Yeah, Arpita: 3:28 However, on a tangent, I have decided recently, for no particular reason, that I'm switching to decaf. Um, and the reason that I never did before is because decaf is disgusting and it tastes terrible relative to coffee. But apparently there's new ways of processing coffee to decaffeinate it without losing a lot of the flavor profile. It's like something with like sugarcane. I don't know. It's like sugarcane water processing or something. I don't know, but decaf has come a long way. It doesn't taste like ass anymore. And so I've been just like curious to be like, can I, can I switch to decaf? So today I'm on day four of decaf only. And today I didn't have a headache. So. Aarati: 4:14 Amazing. Arpita: 4:15 Thank you so much. Thank you Aarati: 4:17 you! Arpita: 4:17 So The last couple days, I definitely had a headache and I was, I was texting my friend who was the one who told me about the new processing and I was like,"I think I'm going to die." He was like, he was like,"Keep with it. Like, it's going to get better. Like, I promise." But today I feel normal. Aarati: 4:36 I think there is something like a three day hump. Like once you get, like when you start, I feel with sugar too, I feel like I've heard that. Like if you try to quit sugar or something, or maybe it's just like, A lot of type of addictive type of things that if you can make it past three days, it's like you, you powered through the hardest part of it and Arpita: 4:58 Wow. Okay. That makes me feel better because I am in fact on because today's Thursday. I started on Monday. So today's my fourth day. Um, and yeah, also the, the company that I work at, um, because we are a quote unquote health company, Aarati: 5:14 Mm hmm. Arpita: 5:14 Our CEO doesn't want us to have junk food in the office at all and I'm like, okay for sure like to a certain extent I'm on board with that. But also there's like there's no sweet treats anywhere. There's no cookies. There's not any, like, there's nothing. Like, the snacks are trail mix and Chex mix and nuts. And I asked the office manager one day, I was like, hey, I was like, could we get, like, candy? Aarati: 5:42 Is that allowed? Arpita: 5:43 And she was like, she was like, no, we can't. And we also don't have chips. There's no... there's no chi- If you want like a salty snack or something? There's no, there's no chips. We have um, God, what are they called? Um, pop chips or something? I don't know. Aarati: 6:01 Like those airy of...? Arpita: 6:02 Kind of look like rice cakes. Yes, they kind of look like rice cakes almost. And I'm like, this is garbage. This is not what I Aarati: 6:08 I'm talking potato chips. Like, Arpita: 6:11 I want Ruffles. Aarati: 6:12 Yes. Yes. Arpita: 6:14 It is honestly so devastating. Aarati: 6:16 But you can't even bring your own in like, Arpita: 6:18 Oh, yeah, you could bring your own, but like, yeah, you could, you can Aarati: 6:21 I was going to say, I feel like that crosses a line, Arpita: 6:24 not, it's not like a ban, but will Aarati: 6:26 It's the company provided snacks. Got it. Arpita: 6:29 And so now I'm making, my new goal is to make a petition for, um, have you seen those, like, smart snacks at Whole Foods or something? Aarati: 6:37 No, I haven't seen those. Arpita: 6:38 I don't even know what they're made out of, but they're probably like erythritol or some other sort of sugar alternative, um, but their whole schtick is that it's only like, One or two grams of sugar for the whole serving Aarati: 6:51 Uh huh. Arpita: 6:52 I mean, I would take that. I would take that at this point because I would like a sweet treat at the end of my lunch. Just like a little baby one. Anyway, this is a huge tangent, but this is the biggest problem in my life right now. Aarati: 7:04 No, that's great. Arpita: 7:06 I'm pretty mad about it. Aarati: 7:09 Congratulations, though, for switching to decaf and it actually sticking. But I know what you mean. Like, even my favorite tea, it was a black tea, and it was like this sweet cinnamon tea that I loved. And Whenever I got the decaf version, it sucked and Arpita: 7:27 It's disgusting. It's so real. No, it's a real thing. it Aarati: 7:30 Yeah, it is. Yeah. So I totally get it. I don't know about coffee, but like, I know about decaf tea and yeah, you're right. It's not the same. So that's, that's a really big achievement. So I'm glad you don't have a headache. I'm glad it's going well. Yeah. Arpita: 7:47 Thank you so much. I Aarati: 7:48 Yeah. Um, oh, the other thing I wanted to say, we got a really nice comment on our YouTube channel, and I just want to share. So this person wrote on the Jack Parsons episode. Um, they wrote, wonderful podcast, glad I found this channel. There aren't much I found that are dedicated to exploring people in science and their background, especially lesser known or discussed figures throughout history. I'm thrilled you are doing this. Please keep it up. Arpita: 8:20 Oh, that's very sweet. Aarati: 8:21 Very happy by that. I was just like, oh my gosh, I love you too. Whoever you are, random internet stranger. You got, you're amazing. Yes. Yeah. Arpita: 8:31 Um, that was really great. Thank you for sharing. Um, I have a very left turn to take, um, in our topic of discussion. It has nothing to do with coffee. Aarati: 8:45 Well, the whole thing was a tangent, I guess. Arpita: 8:47 The whole thing was a tangent. Um, but I am excited to talk to this person. But it was inspired by our last episode when I was talking about the fact that we haven't done anybody who is an ocean scientist, and I am going to talk about the first person to get to the deepest part of the ocean, which is the Mariana Trench. Aarati: 9:07 Oh my goodness. You really took that to heart, yay! Arpita: 9:11 Well, I googled it to be like, is there something interesting there? Because sometimes when I'm researching a story, I think there's going to be an interesting story there. And then it's actually not an interesting story. You know, it's like some dude went to this college and then he did this thing and then that was the end of his life. Like, I don't Aarati: 9:29 sometimes there's like just not Arpita: 9:31 there's not Aarati: 9:31 a lot about their life or like, yeah, yeah, Arpita: 9:34 there's just nothing there in terms or like, sometimes I'll hope that there's like one interesting scientist or someone who has more about them on the Internet. And sometimes it's like, actually so many scientists, but it's actually kind of hard to really pin it down into one thing, but Aarati: 9:50 mm hmm. Arpita: 9:51 one actually ended up being literally one guy. And it's also kind of a weird story. So, I'm kind of interested to see what you think. Aarati: 9:59 Well I would imagine that because I feel like anyone who is willing to traverse to the depths of the ocean has to be a little bit weird. I feel the same way about space, too, though. Anyone who's willing to leave their comfort bubble, like, I'm very much a homebody, so anyone who's willing to, like, go places, I'm like, I don't know if we can be friends. Arpita: 10:21 No, in comparison to most of the people we've done, he's actually quite normal, um, but it is kind of an interesting story, okay. So let's dive in. We're talking about Jacques Piccard. He was born in Brussels in Belgium on July 28th, 1922. And his dad, Auguste Piccard, was also an adventurer, and he had actually set two world records, and he reached the highest altitude in a hot air balloon in 1931, and then he beat his own record in 1932. Aarati: 10:53 Wow. Arpita: 10:54 That, that's his dad. And so growing up, he went to private school in Switzerland. And then in 1943, he went to college in Geneva, where he studied physics and economics. And then he took a year off in 1944 to spend some time in the French army. And then when he left the army in 1946, he started teaching high school economics. There's really not a lot of stuff about his childhood that was kind of about it. But this is kind of where the story starts to get a little bit more interesting. So his dad had done this whole thing with the hot air balloons and had like traveled into, I was going to say space, but I guess it is actually not space because he did not leave the atmosphere, but into the sky, into the sky. Aarati: 11:38 Still high enough. Yeah, high. Arpita: 11:40 He went high. And he was trying to use the same buoyancy technique from hot air balloons to then go the other way. So he was trying to develop a deep sea submersible, but he was trying to use similar concepts of buoyancy to do this. So he's like, cool. I've already checked off the sky. Now we're going to go underwater. Aarati: 12:00 That seems so counterintuitive, though, to try and use the same, like, techniques to go down, like, I would, I would think with going up, you want to get lighter and lighter in order to go up, and then if you want to go down, you need to get heavier and heavier. Arpita: 12:16 Yes, there actually is... This was not part of my deep dive, so I only know a little bit about this, but there is actually like buoyancy is a little bit complicated. So to a certain point of depth, depending on your mass, you will sink. So if you jump into a lake or something, you will sink, but then you depending on how big your body of water is. So, like, let's just say it's like an ocean. And for this case, you won't actually just fall to the bottom of the ocean. Because of there's so much pressure coming up from underneath you, you then actually need force to propel yourself downwards. Aarati: 12:52 Oh, Arpita: 12:53 Scuba divers need their fins and all this stuff to swim actively downwards because you won't sink after a certain point. And then the same principle happens when you are coming back up. One, you can't come back up too quickly because of water pressure and all that. burst your eardrums, like bad things will happen to you. But also, the water will, buoy you upwards to a certain extent. And then after that, you have to actively swim out. So it's the opposite that happens on the way out. Aarati: 13:21 Oh, interesting. I never knew that. Arpita: 13:23 So the same thing is true for anything that's trying to basically go underwater. And it has to do with the proportion of mass to pressure. Don't ask me what that calculation is, but Aarati: 13:33 Okay. No, I believe you. Arpita: 13:35 Yeah. You wouldn't just sink is the bottom line. Aarati: 13:38 Yeah. Oh, that's fascinating. I, I never, like, considering I've never been in anything deeper than a swimming pool, you know, like. Arpita: 13:45 Yeah. So the interesting thing is I'm not actually sure how this so I feel like something like Lake Tahoe or something where it's really deep. It probably be similar principles to an ocean, but I wonder if it is more like a landlocked lake or something if that would actually still be the same if it wasn't that deep if you would actually just sink to the bottom. Aarati: 14:06 Well, I wonder if the salt content also, like, changes things Arpita: 14:10 100% Aarati: 14:11 The The higher the salt content, like, the more you're gonna be buoyed up, right? So. Arpita: 14:16 yeah. Aarati: 14:17 How Interesting. Arpita: 14:18 so Yeah, many factors that are not, you know being discussed at this moment, but it is a little bit tricky to do that. Anyway, yeah, so he's trying to use similar buoyancy techniques and he's basically trying to come up with different ways to make himself sink and then make himself float again. So he does have to not only get past a certain depth, but then he also has to be able to come back up. So needs two things. He needs two mechanisms. Aarati: 14:47 So there's no, like, submarines at this point that's what it sounds like. Like, not really. Arpita: 14:53 No, there, there is, but it, they only go to a certain depth and his goal is to go as deep...Oh, he wants to go as deep as possible. He wants to go deeper. So this is, this is post world war two, or like, this is like getting to the end of world war two. And there was definitely submarines in world war two. Aarati: 15:07 Yes. Okay. Okay. Arpita: 15:08 So this is, it's not a new technology altogether. He is just trying to solve this buoyancy problem and get deeper. Aarati: 15:18 Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Arpita: 15:21 So he develops this deep sea submersible called a bathyscaphe, which is basically an underwater blimp, but imagine if the blimp was rigid. Like, that's what it looks like. Aarati: 15:31 Okay. Arpita: 15:32 Um, and so it's a vessel that can dive and maneuver untethered from a ship. This is, this is straight from Wikipedia. This is in contrast to a bathysphere, which is tethered. I've never heard of either of these words, but apparently it's a thing. Aarati: 15:48 Me neither. Arpita: 15:49 And so in the years following Jacques and his father built three bathscapes between 1948 and 1955, and they recorded depths of 4, 600 feet and 10, 000 feet respectively. And this was a really, really big accomplishment up until this point, the deepest submarine that had. The deepest the submarine had gotten was only 3, 500 feet, Aarati: 16:13 Oh, wow. Arpita: 16:13 which is for The record, very deep, but they were able to get up to 10, 000 feet and they were so happy with their success that Jacques left his teaching job and then he goes to work with his dad full time to improve bathyscaphe for exploration. So he's like, I'm all in. And so then in 1953, they developed a new vehicle called the Triest. Triest? Triest? This is the name of their bathscape. They named this one. It's called the Triest. Trieste, T R I E S T E. Aarati: 16:46 Okay. Arpita: 16:46 They're also, they also probably speak French, so like, I don't know, there's probably like a French way to say this. I do not speak French. Trieste te, I don't know. Um, and then this vehicle was able to reach 10, 168 feet. And they were testing this in the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Italy. And so Trieste consisted of, um, a heavy, Crew sphere, so it's like this big sphere that the crew can be in and it's suspended from the hull of the blimp containing tanks that are filled with gasoline for buoyancy and ballast hoppers filled with iron and floodable water tanks in order to make them sink. So gasoline floats in water. And the more important thing is that it is not compressible, which is really important as you dive deeper and the pressure increases. That's something else that I learned is that. Depending on if there is air that's trapped in the liquid, it will compress and not actually help you to float back up. So they needed something that was so buoyant that it floated in water that would help propel this ship upwards. And then the sphere, the crew sphere, um, had enough space for two crew members and they could access it via vertical shaft through the hull. So basically imagine like a big circle and then around it, it's like attached this big hull with big tanks that either hold gasoline or iron shot. Aarati: 18:17 Okay. Arpita: 18:18 Yeah, it's basically a big blimp is what it is. Aarati: 18:21 That's really interesting, though, that they're using gasoline. Like, I hadn't thought about that. Like, when you said gasoline, I thought immediately, like, oh, they're gonna use that for fuel to, like, move around, but no, it's actually for buoyancy. Arpita: 18:34 Yeah, exactly. No, exactly. There is a, there is a motor, but the motor is not for them to propel downwards. They're using the iron shot to get themselves down. So it's floating down basically. Aarati: 18:48 So the motor is just to go kind of back and forth horizontally, and you have the gasoline to go up and down, and the iron shot. Arpita: 18:56 The gasoline and iron. Yes. So that's why the hot air balloon thing kind of makes sense is because they're trying to use these ideas of, you know, releasing gas in order to make it float and then turning it off to let it cool to let it come back down. So they're floating in the water. They're not propelling themselves up and down. I don't actually know why that is now that I'm saying that loud. I'm actually not sure why they didn't just create a really strong motor, but maybe it was like, did the motors... Aarati: 19:24 I mean, I'm sure it would be like an energy thing too, because like to have that amount of fuel that would drive you down, it's probably a lot less energy intensive to just like have iron shot that will carry you down just like that. Naturally kind of through gravity and through just being more dense than water like it's very passive. Arpita: 19:45 That's it. Aarati: 19:45 helpful. Yeah, like with my work, with climate change, people are, a lot of people are trying to like remove carbon, carbon dioxide or methane or like these greenhouse gases from the environment and either store it or recycle it in some way, make it some useful thing, but one of the big problems is the carbon dioxide and methane in our air is so kind of dilute that in order for you to capture enough carbon dioxide or enough methane you would have to kind of create a fan that blows air through the machine And so if you're, if you have a fan, you need energy. And if you need energy, where does that energy come from? If it's not coming from solar, if it's not coming from, you know, a clean energy source, and you're using gasoline or fossil fuels to power the fan, like, are you actually doing anything? And so that's like a big thing right now that everybody's trying to always find the least energy intensive ways in order to capture carbon and so, like, the lower energy or the more efficient your machine can be the better it is and the lower the carbon footprint is. So, like, a lot of my clients are thinking about it from that perspective. And that's just why I'm also thinking, like, maybe they're, like, not from an environmental point of view, because they didn't care about this back then. It wasn't a big issue probably back then. But just in terms of like, you know, we don't want to be carrying around a ton of fuel, or maybe it's just not practical to carry around a ton of fuel, maybe doing something a bit more passive in terms of just having iron ore to carry them down made more sense. I don't know. But oh, I see. I see what you're saying, though, about like the hot air balloon traveling through air and then they're kind of treating the water as if it's like just another medium that we have to get through with different density properties. And so we can use the same kind of ideas of physics. It's just instead of moving through air, we're moving through a different substance, which is water. I get it. Okay. Arpita: 22:01 That's exactly right. You said it perfectly. That's exactly what they're trying to do here. So, yeah, they have this little blob that they're floating around and then there's room for two people inside and then also the hull or basically the entire thing is made out of really thick steel walls, which was done intentionally to withstand all of the pressure of the deep ocean. Aarati: 22:21 hmm. Mm hmm. Arpita: 22:23 Also, interestingly, I was googling this and couldn't find an answer, but they didn't have a method to pressurize the cabin or where the crew were sitting. So I think they were just, it was just really thick steel and they were, hoping for the best that the pressure would not equalize is really what it was like It basically a vacuum is what they were they were in a vacuum And so there wasn't really a way to actually normalize the pressure when they closed it at the surface I think they were just hoping that it was a seal Aarati: 22:54 Oh, that's so scary. Arpita: 22:56 I Aarati: 22:56 scary. Yeah. Arpita: 22:58 Which is relevant later in the story Aarati: 23:01 Yeah, Arpita: 23:02 So Jacques and his father have built the Triest, and they are really excited about it, and they wanted to keep testing and exploring, but they were running out of money. However, at the same time, the U. S. military was exploring new ways of designing underwater vessels for research, and they were like, hey, you guys seem like you know what you're doing. We're, we'll fund you. So, they were really interested in both of them, they like welcomed Jacques and his dad and they, you know, had like a fair basically to like see what they were up to. And they were like, okay. This seems really cool. We're really interested in your research. And they tested the Trieste for several months and then Jacques and his dad sold their design to the U. S. Navy in 1958. So now the U. S. Navy owns the Trieste and they have this bathyscaphe and it doesn't exist anywhere else in the world because it's a novel design and they were like we don't have anyone to actually pilot this now that we own this and unsurprisingly, nobody pilots a bathyscapes, so then they put out a call for volunteers, uh, in all submarine crews on the West Coast, United States, two people answered this call. One was Jacques. Aarati: 24:20 okay I'll pilot the machine. I just sold you. Arpita: 24:26 Yeah, literally. And the other Aarati: 24:28 was his dad. Arpita: 24:30 No, it wasn't his dad. I think his dad at this point was like, kind of done. I think he was too old and was kind of. Like I think he was interested, but I think he also acknowledged that he was perhaps aging out. Aarati: 24:41 Like, yeah, time for me to retire. Arpita: 24:43 Yeah Aarati: 24:45 Yeah. Arpita: 24:45 The other person was a Navy lieutenant and submariner named Don Walsh. Don was from California and he was a very buttoned up Navy man, and he had lots of experience diving but Don said, quote,"It was like the first two airplanes in the world. Who are you going to get to fly them?" Like basically like who is going to answer this call? Like nobody wants to do this. And also most Navy men didn't apply because they didn't see the point. They didn't think the bathscape had any potential for advancement. They were basically like, what is this random thing that these two random dudes built? Like, I don't want to do that. There's no potential there. And Don said that he didn't care about any of that. He just thought it would be fun. Aarati: 25:27 He just wants to go down in history, kind of. Like, he just wants to be part of, part of the new thing. Arpita: 25:33 I guess. Yeah, he was just like, yeah, I'm down. And so now that the U. S. Navy owns the Trieste, they tested for many months off the coast of Guam, and they were finally able to reach 24, 000 feet, and they at this point decided to take on an even greater challenge to try to reach the deepest point of the ocean. So then they spent a couple more years making modifications and doing test dives, and then they finally decided that the Trieste was ready for its big dive to the bottom of the Mariana Trench. So the Mariana Trench is an oceanic trench in western Pacific Ocean. It's kind of near Guam, which is basically why they were testing it there. And it's the deepest trench on Earth. It's crescent shaped, and it measures about 1, 580 miles long and 43 miles wide. And its deepest point, it's the southern end, and it's called Challenger's Deep, and it's over 36, 000 feet deep, which is over 1. 2 miles deeper than Mount Everest is tall. So if you put Mount Everest upside down into the ocean from its surface, there would still be 1. 2 miles to go from its tip to get to the ocean floor. Aarati: 26:49 Oh my god. And you said the deepest they had gone until this point was 24, 000? So like one third more or yeah. 12, 000 miles more. Oh Arpita: 27:00 exactly, feet, 12, 000 feet more. Aarati: 27:03 Feet. Sorry. Okay. Miles. Did I say miles? Miles would be crazy. Arpita: 27:07 You said miles. Aarati: 27:08 Okay, we'd be, yeah, we'd be through the earth and into space on the other side. Arpita: 27:12 yeah, yeah. Aarati: 27:13 Okay. Sorry. Arpita: 27:14 And the first time that we actually found out about how deep the Mariana Trench was, was in 1875, and it was first sounded, which is basically where they send out sound waves and they're measuring the radar back, um, that was in 1875, which was Honestly, like, for this time period, we're in the fifties, is quite a long time ago. Um, but in Jacques lifetime had never actually been explored. So we never actually sent anything down there other than sound waves. Aarati: 27:43 Wow. Makes sense though. I mean, it's, it's one thing to just measure something. It's another thing to actually Arpita: 27:50 it's like you, you, like, they like stuck their finger in, they were like, yep, it's deep. Like Aarati: 27:57 It's one thing to see the moon. It's quite another thing to go there. Arpita: 28:01 A hundred percent. That's a, that's very good analogy. Aarati: 28:04 Mm hmm. Hi everyone, Aarati here. I hope you're enjoying the podcast. If so, and you wish someone would tell your science story, I founded a science communications company called Sykom, that's S Y K O M, that can help. Sykom blends creativity with scientific accuracy to create all types of science communications content, including explainer videos, slide presentations, science writing, and more. We work with academic researchers, tech companies, non profits, or really any scientist to help simplify your science. Check us out at sykommer. com. That's S Y K O M M E R dot com. Okay, back to the story. Arpita: 28:50 So, on January 20th in 1960. they were like, okay, we're ready for this adventure. So they had a command ship, a tugboat, and the bathyscaphe, and they all set out from Guam. And the first task that they had to do was to find the deepest part of the Challenger Deep from the surface. Um, but because the depth sounder on the ship couldn't measure such extreme depths, the crew employed a very crude method. They lit fuses on blocks of TNT. And I don't know why this keeps coming up in every episode and also Don Walsh agrees with us and he joked that quote"boys like to play with firecrackers" and they do. Aarati: 29:31 Yeah, we've only done like, 25 or 26 episodes and it's like, it feels like 10 of them have explosives. Arpita: 29:38 the time. It does. There's a lot of explosive. So they. Took the TNT, they lit it, and then they heaved them over the side to explode underwater. And then they used the stopwatches to count the seconds until the blast sound waves bounced off of the distant sea floor and echoed back into the ship's hydrophone. So 12 seconds for the sound waves to come back is deeper than 7 seconds. And so they went back and forth across the ocean surface for a couple days, lighting and throwing over and blowing up TNT. And then they finally identified a target area that was about 1. 6 kilometers wide and 11 kilometers long. And this was their target to try to reach the deepest point from the surface, Aarati: 30:20 Gotcha. So I'm assuming that when they actually try to go, they're just going to go straight down is their plan. Like, there's not gonna be a whole lot of steering involved. Gotcha. Arpita: 30:31 So then early in the morning on January 23rd, Don and Jacques climbed down the ladder into the Trieste entrance tunnel and they entered this really tiny cramped cabin. And so Jacques was 6'4 and he designed this cabin to basically accommodate exactly him. So the cabin was exactly 6'4 inches in diameter, which is pretty funny. And Don apparently was much shorter. I don't actually know his exact height, but he apparently could move around the cabin very easily, but Jacques barely fit because he was trying to maximize space, so he made it so he could exactly fit, basically. Aarati: 31:04 That's so funny. Arpita: 31:06 I know. So they let go of a little bit of gasoline to quote"get heavy" and then the iron ballast began to pull the ship downward and their mission started. So at 1500 feet, they had to stop and put on warmer clothes because the ocean's temperature was starting to seep in, and around this point there's no more sunlight, and so you can't, like, it's completely dark, and then it Mm started to get cold. Aarati: 31:31 Oh my god that's so scary like I was like picturing it from the outside before like I was just picturing like an ocean scene with this steel blimp thing sinking down but like. Arpita: 31:42 No, but they're in like a bubble. They're in a six foot wide bubble. Aarati: 31:47 like, I wasn't imagining it from their perspective until you just said that and it's just like pitch black. You can't see anything and it's cold. Oh, my god that's so scary. Arpita: 31:57 Also, six feet wide is not very wide. I'm pretty sure my dining table is probably six feet wide. And then there's two people in that space. So not only is it a small space for one person, it's small space for two people. Aarati: 32:09 Yeah. I don't really consider myself claustrophobic, but I think that would do it. Like, Arpita: 32:14 Oh 100%. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, so the thick steel door did offer some insulation, but once they got to around 2000 feet, that just wasn't a thing anymore. And so at this point, the light vanished and they fell further and further into the dark, and they were very deeply aware of the pressure that was outside their steel chamber. And like I mentioned before, they were kind of just hoping that they had made a vacuum seal. Um, and then once they got to about 9, 400 feet, they heard a loud bang that shook through the cabin and then they both started shaking. And Don said, quote, we looked at all of our indicators, our instruments, and everything was normal. End quote. They didn't know what had caused the noise and it didn't really seem to be affecting the ship itself. So they just decided to keep going. And they were hoping that they made the right decision. I know. Aarati: 33:09 Oh my god. Balls of steel. Like, I cannot. I would be like, nope. Nope. Uh, nope. Take me up. Take me up. Arpita: 33:17 At this point they haven't even reached their record, which was 24, 000 feet. So they're not even anywhere close there. But at this point, they are also really aware that the pressure outside the cabin is really high. So they estimated that it was about 103 megapascals or about 15, 000 pounds per square inch. And so what this basically means, because there's not really a comparator for us to really conceptualize this is, if there was any sort of breach of the vessel at this point, the entire thing would have imploded so quickly, like it would have just closed in upon itself, because there would have been so much pressure. And Don said, quote,"we'd have been dead before we even knew we were dead." Aarati: 34:02 That's what they're thinking happened to the Ocean Gate Titan, right? Like, that's, that was in the news a few months ago. Yeah. Just like, immediately imploded. Arpita: 34:13 Immediately implodes. Yeah, there's nothing you can do. I don't know. I was trying to find like an, like a, what does 15, 000 pounds per square inch mean? And like, there's just like all these like heavy machinery things. I'm like, none of this means anything to me, but really the most important thing is they would have just imploded. Aarati: 34:30 Yeah, just, Like, I can't, I can't imagine just being with that stress. Like, this could be my last breath for that constant feeling. Arpita: 34:41 So also just to like, keep in mind, they've done this a bunch of times before, so they haven't. Yeah, gone this deep, but even getting to this point, they've done this before, so it's not the first time that it's happening. Period. Aarati: 34:55 True. That's true. So I'm like not the type of person who would even take the first journey down like 10 feet. I'd be like, I'm 10 feet down. That's enough. Thank you. They're going like thousands of feet and okay. It's a different, it's a different breed. It's a different type of person who can do that. It's not me. Arpita: 35:13 To a certain extent, they are expecting a lot of this. Aarati: 35:17 Mm hmm. Arpita: 35:18 You know, like they are, they've done this enough times where they've desensitized to certain things and they're like expecting certain things to happen. Aarati: 35:25 Gotcha. Arpita: 35:25 They just haven't beat their record, is all. Aarati: 35:28 Okay. Arpita: 35:30 So At this point, they found out that in the entrance tunnel, which is separate from their cabin, because they have a tunnel that they crawl into, right, they crawl down into a tunnel, and there's a hatch, and now they're in their cabin. They found out that the plexiglass window in the entrance tunnel, which is not part of the cabin, had cracked under the pressure, but they were safe in their little cabin because they were protected by the steel hatch. So. They're like, okay, I think we're okay, but that window up there has cracked. Aarati: 36:03 okay Arpita: 36:04 They looked out into the porthole so they did have a window, and basically, a lot of what they saw was just like silt and sand, but once they got a little bit deeper, they saw a lot of bioluminescence, which is very cool. And Don said that, even as deep as we were, which is not a very thickly populated part of the ocean because there aren't very many nutrients that far from land bioluminescence is rampant, which was super interesting. Aarati: 36:35 That's super cool. Arpita: 36:36 And then Jacques said, quote,"By far, the most interesting find was the fish that came floating by our porthole, even at quite that depth" end quote. And they were really surprised to find marine life at all, because at that point marine biologists figured that there couldn't be any life at that depth, partially because there was no light and the other part because there was so much pressure. They were like, nothing could possibly survive in that kind of environment. Aarati: 37:05 Yeah. Arpita: 37:06 While they were descending at 30, 000 feet, another window cracked, and so they are basically descending for over four hours because this is all happening so slowly. They're floating down. So it took them almost four hours. And the whole time they are sending out sound waves with radar to try to understand where the ocean floor is because they can't see anything. It's completely dark. And so they're like, have we reached the bottom? Where is the bottom? We have no idea. And so they're kind of just like, keep sending out signals to figure out how far they are away. Aarati: 37:39 I feel like I I know i'm not in it, but I feel like i'm in it, you know I'm, i'm like gripping my chair. I'm like, please make it please make it please make it Arpita: 37:50 So finally they do get to the bottom, and they touch down and they, neither apparently neither of them, so. Let me back up. Jacques wrote a piece for National Geographic in 1960, basically explaining all of this. That's where all these quotes are from because it's their record of when they were talking about this. And I guess neither guy was very emotional or really was one for speeches. So they got to the bottom and then they quote,"We looked at each other, we shook hands and we said, well, we did it." End quote. I was like, Aarati: 38:24 Okay, but you know what to be fair like I can imagine my brother doing exactly the same thing. So I get it. Like I get it. You make this huge achievement and everyone's like, oh my god And he's just like yeah. Arpita: 38:37 Yep. Aarati: 38:39 Yeah, I know. Yeah. What do you think we did all this for we did achieved it It went exactly as planned. Yeah. Excellent. Why are you all freaking out? Arpita: 38:48 That's exactly what happened. Aarati: 38:49 That's so funny. Arpita: 38:52 So then they are looking out the porthole and they're trying to see if they can see anything, but because they've now touched down onto the floor, all of the sand came up. And so they basically couldn't see anything. And Don said, quote,"It looked like looking into a bowl of milk." So they really couldn't see anything because it was just so much sand had come up through there. Because they basically put, displaced everything and then all the sand comes up. Aarati: 39:15 Uh, gotcha. Arpita: 39:17 Um, and so then they, because they were worried that now these two portholes had cracked, they were like, I think we should get out of here. So they only stayed at the ocean floor for 20 minutes. Aarati: 39:27 That's still quite a, quite a while though. Arpita: 39:30 Well, they, Well, Aarati: 39:31 enough. Arpita: 39:32 hours to get there. Aarati: 39:33 I know, but for me, I'd be like, okay, let's go back up now. Like constantly, I'm like constantly like, okay, let's leave. Let's leave. Let's leave. 20 minutes is good enough. Let's go. Arpita: 39:45 So then they dropped their ballast of iron pellets, which was keeping them heavy, and they started their long ascent. So even though their ship was damaged, it only took them about three hours to come back up, and nothing dramatic happened on their way back up, which is great. Wait Aarati: 40:01 so did they ever figure out what made the banging happen on their way down? Arpita: 40:07 It was the port hole. It was the porthole cracking. Aarati: 40:08 It was the porthole cracking from the pressure. It wasn't like, because I was thinking it might have been like an animal or something that hit them, but no? Arpita: 40:14 No, it's porthole cracking. Yeah, like the glass breaking and steel and Yeah, cuz then again hitting against the steel. So it's like depressurizing and hitting against the steel Aarati: 40:27 Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Arpita: 40:29 And when the Treist finally bobbed up to the surface, Don and Jacques climbed up the long ladder to go top side and they perched on top of their vessel. And while they waited for their support ships, they reflected on how successful their mission would open up the way for like exploration of the Mariana Trench. And they were trying to figure out when the next people would be there. And they decided that it would be somewhere between two or three years before the next people were down there to do more deep sea exploration. Jacques said,"On reaching the Trieste's deck, I had the impression of emerging in the middle of an air meet. Several Navy jets and a plane of the Guam Air Rescue Unit were sailing down above us with an infernal racket, dipping their wings to greet us. A few miles away, the Lewis and behind her the Wendek were approaching rapidly." That was the names of the two support vessels that were carrying them around. Um, and so he felt like he was, you know, like a soldier returning from war and he felt very excited by all of this. And really something interesting about this was the fact that they saw any fish at all, like I mentioned, was scientifically very interesting because, like I mentioned, they didn't believe that life could survive at such high pressures. But because this wasn't a research vessel, they didn't collect any samples. They didn't record anything. So there was nothing to analyze after the fact, but it did show the scientific community that deep sea exploration, especially of the ocean floor was A) possible and B) actually worthwhile because there was life down there. So from a scientific perspective those were the two big takeaways aside from the fact that they did something and achieved something that no one else had done before. Aarati: 42:16 Yeah, I mean, even today, that's one of the things that we still haven't fully explored, right? Like, we don't know about all the life forms that live down in our ocean trenches and can survive down there. So that's huge. I feel like I'm glad the scientific community actually believed them because for a second there, I was afraid that you were going to say, like, they were like, no, that's impossible. We don't believe you. There's only two guys. You must've been hallucinating under the pressure or something, Arpita: 42:45 I mean, I guess there that is a version of it happening, but it Aarati: 42:48 I'm glad that didn't happen. Arpita: 42:49 ...go well. Which I mean, kind of segues into the next thing, which this was a really historic dive and it got worldwide attention and Jacques wrote an account of it called Seven Miles Down, which was the excerpt that was published in National Geographic. That was what I was basically reading from. Um, and they wanted to plan a return mission, but it never really happened. The Trieste was really expensive to maintain and operate. And it also. Because of the way it was structured, because the cabin was so small, there was no way for them to collect any samples, and they also couldn't really take any photographs because there was no light down there, so there was really no good way for them to collect any scientific data with this specific vessel, so a return trip on the Trieste didn't really happen. But, like I mentioned, it really was a major step forward in environmental protection. It really highlighted, like I said, the evidence of life where no one had expected to find any, but it also induced governments to abandon the idea of dumping toxic waste in ocean trenches, because now they realized that there was ocean life down there, um, and required environmental protection, where previously people were like, there's nothing there, we're just gonna Aarati: 44:08 Just dump your waste there Arpita: 44:09 waste in Aarati: 44:10 there. Yeah. Oh, that's good. Yeah Arpita: 44:13 So by the end of the 60s, the US Navy had abandoned manned exploration of the Mariana Trench It was too risky and it was also like I mentioned so expensive to maintain a vessel that could dive that deep. Um, and so they, the Navy decided to limit craft depths above 6000 meters. And so the next generation of any research done on the ocean floor was done with robots. And so once they could build crafts that could go deeper, they were mostly unmanned just for safety reasons is what the Navy said. Aarati: 44:50 Okay, that's more my speed. I could stay on the surface and like, guide a robot around. That I can do. Arpita: 44:57 But for true believers like Don Walsh, he said, quote,"The ability of a man to observe and modify his program on site is pretty important. You can't surprise an instrument." So they maintain that the best way to do it would be for a manned exploration. But the Navy was arguing we can explore 98 percent of the ocean, everything but these mysterious trenches. And they're like, no, but that's where the cool shit is. So Aarati: 45:23 Yeah. It's like, Arpita: 45:25 Bit of disconnect for sure. Aarati: 45:26 That makes sense. Yeah, it's like, we can look at everything except the most interesting part of the trench. Arpita: 45:31 They're like, I want to go over there and they're like, you can't go over there. And they're Aarati: 45:34 Yeah, Arpita: 45:34 like that's where I want to go. Aarati: 45:36 I do. I do agree that there's something to be said for the human experience if you're brave enough to actually do that. You know, like I don't think I would ever. I would just be like I'm good with my robots But hey, if you want to go down there and you want to go see it firsthand. I'm not gonna stop you Arpita: 45:54 Exactly. So after the success of their Challenger Deep mission, Jacques and his father designed a new submersible called a Mesoscaphe. And this vehicle was built and was called the Auguste Piccard after the dad. And it was the world's first passenger submarine and they used it to transport more than 33, 000 tourists beneath Lake Geneva during the Swiss exhibition of 1964. So they were really trying to get more people involved with this. And so Jacques had high conviction that ecological problems had to be urgently addressed and he denounced all forms of pollution, especially dumping in lakes and seas and oceans. So he created the Foundation for the Study and Protection of the Seas and Lakes. And he was really a pioneer fighting against pollution, and he contributed through press and articles that he wrote the awakening of ecological awareness, and he was a solid 30 years ahead of when global warming even became a word that we talk about. Aarati: 46:59 I love that. He's like already just thinking about ocean life. And yeah, just amazing. I guess like seeing it firsthand would do that to you though, like you see the wonder of something and you want to protect it and make sure that future generations also have the ability to have that same sense of wonder. So I love that. Arpita: 47:19 So he is still at it, he builds, um, an even newer submarine and he calls this one the Ben Franklin and it was specifically used for scientific research. And it was one of the first vessels to chart the Gulf Stream. On July 14th, 1969, the Ben Franklin was towed to the center of the Gulf Stream off the coast of Vietnam. Palm Beach, Florida. And once it was on site with its six man international crew descended to 1, 000 feet off of the Riviera Beach, Florida and drifted 1, 444 miles north. And then they came up near Maine. Um, so they basically, yeah, traverse the entire Aarati: 47:59 They just went all the way, all the way up. Arpita: 48:01 Yep. All the way up. So this crew consisted of Jacques as the mission leader. They had another Swiss man named Erwin Aebersold and he was the pilot and the remaining crew members included a Navy submariner, an acoustic specialist from the Royal Navy, and a NASA astronaut. And they spent more than four weeks in this vessel studying the currents for the U. S. Navy, and this mission provided valuable data about long duration travel in confined spaces for the U. S. space program, and it also gave them a lot of understanding about currents and weather in the Gulf Stream. And so this data, actually ended up being really, really valuable for all of the Apollo missions into space because they understood, because like a lot of times astronauts will do test dives in the ocean because a lot of the similar constraints of pressure, darkness, small spaces are there so then you can practice in the ocean. And so this gave them a lot of data to help understand once they sent out their Apollo missions, which is really cool. Aarati: 49:05 Did you say how long it took them to go traverse the entire Gulf Stream? Arpita: 49:10 Four weeks. Aarati: 49:11 Four weeks. Wow. That is, that is quite a long time to be underwater. Arpita: 49:15 Yeah. In a tiny little space with six dudes. Aarati: 49:18 Yeah. You better really like your companions. I bet they test for that too, though, like Arpita: 49:24 Yeah, yeah. Aarati: 49:25 and everything. You got to test for. Yeah, character and, you know, personality and everything. Arpita: 49:31 I agree. Probably the opposite of what they do on reality shows, you know? Like, looking and seeing most compatible instead of, like, least compatible on Aarati: 49:37 Oh my god. I just had a, like, vision of, like, year 3025, when we have, like, reality shows in space. And it's like, we put the most, two most unlikely astronauts together. Let's watch the drama unfold. Arpita: 49:52 So in 1971, Jacques spent the next few years as a science consultant for the American for American deep sea research organizations, including Grumman Aircraft, and his work with the ocean showed him the dangers posed by human activity. And so in the late 1970s, he founded the foundation. Like I mentioned, and then in an interview, he said that the sea could only be saved by dramatic changes in relation to fishing and pollution. And he was very, very steadfast that we should protect all bodies of water, especially with pollution. Aarati: 50:27 Mm hmm. Arpita: 50:28 Um, and this was something that he remained very interested in throughout the rest of his life. In 1990, Jacques designed a 16 seat tourist submarine for series production. So he was trying to replicate what he did previously in Lake Geneva, and then have this be something that gets more mass produced. And his goal was to take tourists and educate them about the needs to protect the oceans. So the 16 seater submersible had big, large portholes, and then they did test dives in Lake Zurich. And in addition to these advancements, he was really hoping that He could get funding to start a company to do this basically at a larger scale to show people what the oceans had and so that they could be more invested in saving them. Aarati: 51:12 Oh, cool. Whole ocean tourism. Arpita: 51:14 Yeah ocean tourism, basically exactly it. And he unfortunately never raised enough money to do this, but that was his vision. Aarati: 51:21 Mm hmm. Arpita: 51:22 And Jacques did have a son. I was trying to figure out some details about his personal life and his son kind of just appears. And this is also the end of the story. This is, I know there's some parts of the story that are very detailed than other parts that I really couldn't find as much on. But his son is continuing his family tradition. So his son actually commanded the first nonstop hot air balloon flight. around the world in March 1999, and then the first solar powered plane flight around the world in the December of 2009. I Aarati: 51:55 Oh, wow. That's pretty amazing. Oh my gosh, this whole family of, like, explorers. Yeah, these Piccards. I was gonna ask does the last name Piccard have anything to do with Star Trek? Did they get, like, any of the inspiration from there? Arpita: 52:11 I don't know, but maybe, I Aarati: 52:13 interesting. Yeah, because it just seems like exploration and, like, these scientists. It seems like a very nerdy overlap. Arpita: 52:22 Clear connection. I think you must be right. Aarati: 52:25 Yeah, it does say that Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry named Piccard for one or both of the twin brothers, August Piccard and Jean Piccard, 20th century Swiss scientists. Arpita: 52:38 Oh. Yeah, I guess that's right because that would be the dad. Aarati: 52:41 Yeah, Arpita: 52:41 twin brother. Aarati: 52:43 yeah, I didn't realize that. Okay, great. Arpita: 52:45 Um, in November 2008, Jacques passed away in his sleep in his Lake Geneva home in Switzerland, and he was 86 years old. Aarati: 52:58 Wow. Arpita: 52:59 And yeah, that's the, that's the story. I found a really interesting article that was like three generations of Piccards, because all three of them were such amazing explorers. Aarati: 53:10 Oh my gosh, amazing story. I'm so glad that you followed up on our promise from last episode to do, to do ocean trenches. that's Arpita: 53:19 Yeah, Aarati: 53:19 amazing. Great story. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time, pretty much. Like, Arpita: 53:26 I'm so glad Aarati: 53:27 yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm so glad they came back safe. And they're, you know, everything's okay. Yeah, Arpita: 53:35 understand the stress though. Aarati: 53:36 Yeah. I was stressed just listening to it. And so I'm like, Oh, phew, relief. I'm very glad that they're, they're back safe. Everything worked out and it was a happy ending. So wonderful. a I love... Arpita: 53:47 Ending. Aarati: 53:47 I love a happy ending. Thanks for listening. If you have a suggestion for a story we should cover or thoughts you want to share about an episode, reach out to us at smartteapodcast. com. You can follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and BlueSky at Smart Tea Podcast, and listen to us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. And thanks for leaving a rating or comment, it really helps us grow New episodes are released every other Wednesday. See you next time!