Episode Transcript
Arpita: 0:10 Notice for our listeners, this episode contains mentions of suicide. Aarati: 0:16 Hi everyone. And welcome back to the Smart Tea podcast, where we talk about the lives of scientists and innovators who shape the world. I'm Aarati. Arpita: 0:24 I'm Arpita. Aarati: 0:26 How are you doing? Arpita: 0:27 I am very busy this week. Aarati: 0:31 Yeah? Arpita: 0:32 I'm heading to Italy tomorrow. And so, my life is fully in the throes of pre- trip drama. Like, all the random things that you need to do before you head out on like a long trip, um, so the to do list is just like, I got to finish my laundry, I got to figure out watching the cats. I got to figure out like my packing list and what I'm wearing. And oh, my God, so many things. Aarati: 0:59 Have you ever been to Italy? Arpita: 1:02 I have been to Italy. Um, we're going to Como and I've never been to Como. So, uh, yes, that's the other thing. So I'm just like, oh, it's going to be so hot. What am I going to wear? My wardrobe is for San Francisco. Aarati: 1:14 Yes. Yes. Arpita: 1:17 Then I was Googling yesterday. I was like, are there going to be mosquitoes? And then Google gave me varying responses. I'm like, okay, well now I got to get bug spray. Aarati: 1:24 Oh my gosh. You know what, though? I just saw this thing on TikTok where someone said that if you just put vanilla extract and water in a spray bottle and spray it, the mosquitoes will stay away from you. And I have not tried it, but they are swearing by it. It's like some girl who lives in Florida and who swears that every summer she's been eaten alive by mosquitoes. And then she saw this hack and she tried it. Cause she was like, I've tried every other bug spray on the market. And all it is is vanilla extract and water mixed together and she's Arpita: 1:56 What? Aarati: 1:56 It's amazing and she put a little like cinnamon stick in there and she's like, I smell great. The mosquitoes aren't bothering me at all. So I don't know. You could try it and see if it is true. Because if so, that sounds amazing. Yeah. Arpita: 2:11 Okay. Well, I want to try that simply because I would love to smell like vanilla and not like Aarati: 2:17 Right? Arpita: 2:18 sticky bug spray. Yeah. Aarati: 2:19 What's the worst... Like even if it doesn't work, you'll smell amazing. So there you go. Arpita: 2:24 Great hack. I'm looking into that. Um, but yeah, that's what's happening in my life. What about you? What's up with you? Aarati: 2:30 I mean, not much. I am really trying not to get weighed down by the political climate of today Arpita: 2:37 God. Aarati: 2:37 and right now. Even Arpita: 2:38 want to bring it up. I didn't want you. Aarati: 2:39 I know I know I'm just like watching the news and people are going crazy. There's all these conspiracy theories, and I'm just sitting here, like, what has the world come to? And I'm also, I have like an intern that I'm working with right now who's writing blog pieces, but he wants to go into politics. And I'm just like, why, why, I mean, we need people like you who will go and fight the good fight. Arpita: 3:08 We need like young, smart, talented people. Aarati: 3:11 We really do, we need people so badly. So I admire those people, but I also can't fathom it. Cause I'm really the type of person who just buries their head in the sand and it's just like, I don't see all this stuff. I don't see all this craziness that's happening. Please. I live in you know, very liberal bubble and I'm very happy here. Please Arpita: 3:30 Yeah, I know. It's so hard. And then I also feel like I'm very sensitive. So then I feel like the news affects me so deeply. And so then I have to also moderate my consumption. So I totally feel you. Aarati: 3:42 Yeah. It gives me so much anxiety. So I'm just trying really hard to like, I want, I'm in this weird place where I want to be informed about what's happening in the world, but at the same token, I need to take my mental health into consideration and just. You know, so, um, I dunno, but yeah, that's, that's kind of just what's been happening. I'm, I feel just a little bit more like it's a little bit more close to home because of, the intern that I'm helping right now. So I have to think about the politics a little bit more and I'm trying to stay focused more on the storytelling and how to, like, guide him towards making a more compelling story and things like that, rather than what the story is actually about. So yeah. Anyway, speaking of stories, Arpita: 4:29 I was going to say, I have a, I think I have a good one for you that you're going to like. Aarati: 4:35 Okay, yes, that'll take my mind off of what's happening in the world. Maybe transport us to a time when scientific discovery was, applauded and admired? Arpita: 4:48 Yeah, I think you're gonna like this one. So, the star of our story today is about Ettore Majorana, and he is an Italian physicist who worked on theoretical physics right as it was getting started. But he disappeared under very mysterious circumstances. So we're getting a little true crime-y on Smart Tea today. Aarati: 5:10 Excellent. Arpita: 5:11 It's not a full murder mystery, but you know, it's like a missing person. There's some intrigue. Aarati: 5:18 Well, the first podcasts I started listening to, honestly, were true crime podcasts. When I was listening, when I was like working in the lab, I was like, these true crime podcasts just make the time go so fast. So I'm excited that the two worlds are kind of coming together. Arpita: 5:33 I know. That's what I was thinking of too. Um, okay. So Ettore was born in Catania, Italy, which is just outside Mount Etna on August 5th, 1906. His mother Doreena was from a very wealthy family and he was raised in this beautiful home with lots of luxuries. And he came from this very crazy, talented, and smart family. So his uncle, Angelo, was very talented and precocious, and he became a lawyer at 16, Aarati: 6:05 Oh my God. Arpita: 6:06 Got appointed to be assistant professor at the University of Catania when he was 17. He published so many books. His uncle Quirino Majorana was a physicist at Bologna University, and he was really close to Ettore. Aarati: 6:21 So this is another uncle. Arpita: 6:23 Different uncle. Aarati: 6:24 He has a lawyer uncle and now a professor uncle. Arpita: 6:26 A physicist uncle. Yeah. Um, this uncle was best known for rejecting Einstein's theory of relativity, and he performed a lot of experiments to disprove it. Etorre's father, Fabio Massimo had really high expectations for his family. And he also came from a very, high achieving background. He was a successful engineer and businessman. Aarati: 6:52 Oh, wow. Are these all like three brothers? Arpita: 6:55 The two uncles are the mom's brothers. Aarati: 6:58 Wow. that's some genetic stock you're coming from. Yeah. Arpita: 7:05 He had four other siblings, Rosina, Salvatore, Luciano, and Maria. He was the fourth of five His siblings were all also very brilliant, but I think that that would go down quite the rabbit hole. So, um. he grew up very kind of timid and shy. He was a little weird and overall this was a very close knit, like I said, brilliant family. This is a very, very brilliant family. Aarati: 7:35 Mm hmm. So far this is sounding ideal. This is like a wealthy family in Italy where everyone is just so smart and probably beautiful. Like, that's what I'm imagining in my head anyway, that Arpita: 7:48 It's honestly pretty right. That's, that's, we're setting the stage. Aarati: 7:51 Okay, great. Arpita: 7:52 So, like most kids during this time period, he was initially educated at home, and then he was sent to a Jesuit boarding school in Rome with his brothers. And that being said, homeschool isn't what you would probably think of with like a governess. It was actually really rigorous because, as mentioned, their dad had very, very high standards for them. And he was known for being really tough on his kids, especially when it came to academics. So he probably got a really thorough education, even though he was homeschooled. When he was in high school, he transferred to another school in Rome to finish his pre university education. And the family also moved to Rome so that Ettore could finish his education while still living with his family. Aarati: 8:37 Okay. Arpita: 8:37 He got his diploma in 1923 and then thought he was going to be an engineer, just like his father. So he enrolled in this two year program at the University of Rome to prepare for engineering school. And so for the next two years, he worked in this engineering program. Um, I did find something funny that was, that said that hydraulics was a class that was really hard for him to pass, but he was a brilliant student everywhere else, which I thought was kind of funny. It's like, at least he was human. Like, there was something that wasn't good at. Aarati: 9:10 Hydraulics is his kryptonite. Arpita: 9:12 Yeah, I guess. Aarati: 9:13 Great. I mean, hopefully we all have something like that at Arpita: 9:16 Yeah. I feel like I have many, but... Aarati: 9:19 Yeah, at least one. Arpita: 9:21 At least one. Yeah. And then now we hit this inflection point in his life. He meets a man named Emilio Segre. For maybe people who have already heard of him, he won the Nobel Prize in physics, later on, but he became very good friends with Ettore. So Emilio convinced Ettore that he should leave engineering and do physics with him, study physics instead. Aarati: 9:47 Okay, what did he win the Nobel Prize in physics for? Arpita: 9:50 Don't remember. You can look it up.I Aarati: 9:55 Emilio, uh, Nobel Prize, I feel like I'm going to look it up and I'm not going to know anyway. Emilio Gino Segre, you said? okay, I'm looking it up. He won the 1959 Nobel Prize in physics for his discovery of the antiproton. Which is an antiparticle with the same mass as a proton, but the opposite electrical charge. Interesting. Okay. I feel like I haven't studied the parts of an atom since high school. Arpita: 10:23 Uh, as we will discover, neither have I. So, Aarati: 10:26 Great. Great. This this is really giving like Emmy Noether vibes. Arpita: 10:31 Emmy Noether? Yeah, I, I really tried my best, um, to understand the physics here. I apologize in advance as we get to it a little bit later, but Aarati: 10:42 We're not physicists.. Arpita: 10:43 We're, we're explaining this through biologist lens. We're trying our best. Aarati: 10:48 Yeah. We really are. Um, yeah. Sorry. Moving forward. Arpita: 10:54 That's okay. So Emilio convinced Ettore to study physics with him. But it's interesting because it seems like Emilio was just kind of passing the torch because there was this famed physics professor, Enrico Fermi, who did the same thing for Emilio. So Emilio also was enrolled in an engineering program, and Fermi convinced him to join the physics department and thought he would be really good at it. And so then Emilio was like, Ettore, I think you should also join the physics department. And he was trying to loop his friend in. Aarati: 11:24 Oh wow. I have heard of Enrico Fermi. So, Arpita: 11:27 Yes. So, big name in physics. Um, and so then Emilio introduced Ettore to Fermi, who was the professor of theoretical physics at the University of Rome. So now they're all working together with Fermi, and there's the story that one of the first days he was working with Fermi in his lab, he was taught the statistical model of the atom, and he was given a table of calculations that Fermi had done himself that were associated with this model. And then Ettore came back the next day with his own sheet of calculations and asked to look at Fermi's work. and told him that he was checking Fermi's math and wanted to make sure that the calculations were correct. And it seemed like he really trusted his own math even against this like world renowned professor. Aarati: 12:16 Oh, wow. I mean, on some level, I do understand that. I like, which grad student hasn't at one point believed that they know more than their professor? Arpita: 12:26 I think this is fair. This is also maybe like one of his first days in the lab. So that seems like kind of wild behavior when you're still new. Aarati: 12:33 Yeah, Yeah, that does take a lot of chutzpah. Arpita: 12:36 It does. However, there's also a theory from another physicist that I read that he was maybe just working out his own way to do these calculations before he joined the lab, like he was already sort of interested in this and was just trying to line up if his work was the same as Fermi's work. That is something that other people have posited, but we Aarati: 12:57 Okay. Arpita: 12:58 I just thought that was a funny story. Aarati: 12:59 Yeah, that is pretty funny. That makes sense, though. That would make sense if he was just kind of checking to see if he was on the right track with his own way of doing things. Yeah. Arpita: 13:08 So. It's 1928, he's joining this physics program at the University of Rome, and he becomes part of this group known as the Via Panisperna Boys, who were named for the street where the physics offices were. And so this group included his good friend, Emilio Segre, and so many of them were working together under Fermi. And this group in particular was working mainly to advance the world of particle physics. And this line of research ended up continuing on and eventually enabled the development of the atomic bomb, so in nuclear fission. So that path of research eventually led to this, but they were working on sort of the really early stages of this research. Aarati: 13:51 Oh, wow. Okay. Arpita: 13:52 Okay. So now here's where you have to bear with me. So then in 1929, Ettore completed his thesis, which was titled"The Quantum Mechanics of Radioactive Nuclei." And so the focus of his thesis applied this newly emerging principle of quantum mechanics to understand the behavior of particles that were admitted during radioactive decay of atomic nuclei. So for his thesis, he proposed a theory on alpha decay specifically, which is a specific type of radioactive decay. And alpha decay is the emission of a helium nucleus from an unstable nucleus. Aarati: 14:31 Okay. Helium has two protons, right? Arpita: 14:35 Correct. Aarati: 14:36 Okay. And so you have an unstable, hang on. So you have an unstable atom, and as it decays, it gives off like two protons. Is that right? Which is a helium atom. Arpita: 14:49 That is my understanding. But Yeah, I don't know. This is where I sort of was just like, this is so beyond my depth. I have no idea what's going on. Aarati: 14:58 Yeah. It's, it's Arpita: 15:00 I, I have to say, I tried so hard to understand this. And I, at some point... Aarati: 15:06 Sounds really hard. Arpita: 15:06 Was just like, what the f is going on? Okay. Anyway, so his specific thesis extended this theory of alpha decay to look at the behavior of other particles that get emitted from excited states of nuclei. So, alpha decay is something that was known where a helium nucleus is emitted, and he's trying to understand the behavior of any other particles emitted during this excited radioactive state. Aarati: 15:33 Okay. So if anything besides helium is being emitted by Arpita: 15:38 Yes. Aarati: 15:39 decaying nuclei. Okay. Yeah. Seems like a reasonable thing to study. Arpita: 15:43 Great. Aarati: 15:45 Sure. Like I'm, yeah, like, cause I'm still not sure why he, like, I would wonder why hydrogen is not being emitted cause that's only one proton. One electron, it would seem like it would also be emitted, Or is that just maybe another type of decay? I feel like I'm probably asking questions that are like, not that we really need an expert in here. Arpita: 16:05 I have no idea. I was fighting for my life trying to figure out all of these physics, so, Aarati: 16:11 No, I get that. Arpita: 16:12 Okay. So after he published his thesis, he decided to stay at the University of Rome and he started teaching there for the next four years. And at this point, he really became considered a master in this field of theoretical and particle physics. So, in 1933, he began a new phase of his career. The Italian Research Council gave him a grant to travel to Leipzig, Germany, where a lot of theoretical research was happening. And so once he was in Germany, he started working with Werner Heisenberg, who was a leader in quantum mechanics. And when Heisenberg published his paper on "Quantum Theoretical Reinterpretation of Kinematic and Mechanical Relations", it changed the field of physics really completely by introducing this concept of quantum mechanics. And this is, this is really where, Ettore jumped in like he was really at this pinnacle of right when this field was getting started and working with these amazing, brilliant scientists. Aarati: 17:13 Wow. Arpita: 17:14 summarize, Aarati: 17:15 late twenties, right? If my math is correct, like he's already this amazing genius master in quantum physics. Oh my God. Okay. Arpita: 17:24 Yeah, yeah. This guy's for sure a genius. Aarati: 17:26 Wow. Go off. All right. Arpita: 17:29 So just to summarize quantum mechanics is, and this is the definition I pulled this straight Aarati: 17:34 Yes. Yes, please. That's going to be helpful. Arpita: 17:37 Yeah. Is the science dealing with the behavior of matter and light on the atomic and subatomic scale. It attempts to describe and account for the properties of molecules and atoms, as well as their electrons, protons, and neutrons, and other particles like quarks and gluons. These properties include wave like duality, where a particle like an electron can have both a wave like and particle like behavior, quantization, which is where certain properties like energy come in these discrete packets, quants, um, as opposed to continuous values, and the uncertainty principle where it is impossible to know both the exact position and momentum of a particle at the exact same time. So these are some of the key principles of quantum mechanics. And just to be clear, this is the definition in 2024. All of this science was really in its infancy during Ettore's life, so like they didn't necessarily know all of this to quite that extent. More just for background, this is what the field of quantum mechanics is trying to accomplish. Aarati: 18:43 Yeah. Cause I don't think we even knew about quarks until at least like, I feel like that's a relatively recent thing. And gluons, I haven't even heard of gluons, so. Arpita: 18:55 So Leipzig was really this cutting edge of theoretical research and he was right there with the top scientists. And he spent the first half of 1933 in Leipzig working with these, with this group. And then he traveled to Copenhagen to work with a different physicist, the Danish Niels Henrik David Bohr. So probably names that I think we, yeah, I know I was going to say, I feel like we've heard of a lot of these people before. Aarati: 19:19 Yes. Arpita: 19:20 Uh, we'll get to this later, but as I was reading and researching this episode, a lot of people were saying that his name would have been right up there with Marie Curie, Einstein, Newton, like all these names that are like household level, um, if it wasn't for what happened to him. And we will, we'll, we'll get to it. But a lot of people have like people who are contemporaries of his... Aarati: 19:46 Mm-hmm. Arpita: 19:46 ...say that he had that level of intelligence and that level of weight on the physics field. Aarati: 19:53 Oh my gosh. Okay. Now I'm really curious to know what happened. Arpita: 19:57 So after Copenhagen, after Germany, he goes back to Rome at the end of 1933 and he stops writing entirely. He got kind of sick during these travels. He had ongoing digestive GI issues and the doctors that he saw thought that he had nervous exhaustion, but it never really went away. Um, this period of his life is a little bit quieter and it seems like he lost himself a little bit after these travels and it didn't seem like he was as compelled by his work or as driven to teach and learn more about physics. But around the same time, in 1932, Irene Joliot-Curie, who is Marie Curie's daughter, and her husband, Friedrich, they did this experiment that had sort of weird results. So they bombarded beryllium atoms with alpha particles, also known as helium nuclei. Which is probably why it's called alpha decay. Aarati: 20:54 Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Arpita: 20:56 That makes sense. Um, and they observed a new type of radiation emitted. They believed that this radiation consisted of high energy gamma rays, photons. Aarati: 21:08 Okay. Arpita: 21:09 And their experiment also showed that this radiation could knock protons out of paraffin wax, which is a hydrogen rich material with surprisingly high energy. And according to the physics that they knew at the time, photons are these little light particles that don't have mass. And so they should not be able to knock out these particles that do have mass from the paraffin. And so the Joliot-Curie's published this, but they mistakenly interpreted the particles as photons. Aarati: 21:39 So they thought they were shooting light or like photon particles at this paraffin wax and then seeing protons getting knocked off? Arpita: 21:49 Close. So they were bombarding beryllium atoms with alpha particles. And they were noticing that this very interesting type of radiation was being emitted. And so in this case, they thought photons were being emitted. Aarati: 22:03 Oh, they thought the photons were being emitted. Okay. Arpita: 22:06 Correct. And then that radiation was knocking protons out of the paraffin wax. Aarati: 22:12 Oh, interesting. Okay. Arpita: 22:14 So it's like a little bit of a, um, sequential thing. Um, and so they thought these were photons and then Ettore read this paper and he thought that these particles were more similar mass to protons because he was like, you know, laws of conservation of mass, that probably makes more sense. So he started hypothesizing that there is another particle in an atom. And today we know these as neutrons and he made this discovery and he told Enrico Fermi about it. He did all these calculations. Fermi was like, amazing, great publish. Never published. And so ultimately this discovery was credited to James Chadwick in the UK for discovering the neutron. Aarati: 22:57 Oh, wow. So, like, James Chadwick was doing probably, like, similar lines of inquiry, but since Ettore didn't publish, Chadwick basically scooped that result. So they weren't working together. They were just concurrently studying the same thing at the same time, and Chadwick published first. Arpita: 23:16 So that's what I exactly what I was just going to say is it's not really clear what happened. So it sounds like this field was really exploding. And when the Julio-Curies published and when Chadwick published happened within just a couple months of each other. So Ettore really would have had to jump on it, but he was just kind of wandering at this point. He wasn't super excited about physics. He was sort of dabbling in philosophy, economics, and he like couldn't really stick with anything. And he just like didn't follow through and publish, even though all of his lab notes show that he actually got to the conclusion faster than James Chadwick did. Aarati: 23:54 That's, that's still true today, like publishing your results are so important. I think that's why, you know, people have started doing things like bio archive and stuff where you can just publish without peer review because the peer review process takes forever and then you might get scooped on your result. And I mean, I don't know what it was like back in the 19, what is this, 40s, 50s, something. I don't know. 30s? Yeah, so I don't know how fast it or how easy and fast it was to publish then, but just goes to show even back then you needed to be on it. You needed to publish. Otherwise, you know, your name kind of gets lost in obscurity. Arpita: 24:34 Completely agree. And that's what happened to him. And understandably, Fermi was pretty upset by this. Aarati: 24:40 Oh, yeah, I bet. He's like, you had it. You had it in your hands and you just, what, what were you doing? Arpita: 24:48 No, exactly. Um, so then in 1937, the University of Rome opened up some new positions for physics chairs and Fermi encouraged Ettore to go for one of these jobs. And this finally got him a little bit out of his slump. So he wrote and submitted a paper called"The Symmetrical Theory of the Electron and Positron". He didn't get the job, but there's also a little bit of controversy about this paper. Some historians suggested that Fermi might have written the paper himself and submitted it on Ettore's behalf. Aarati: 25:24 Oh. Arpita: 25:25 Yeah. And this is debated by physicists who think that Fermi's writings and learnings on neutrons don't match Ettore's lab notes from the same period, so that they weren't actually thinking about and researching the same topics around the same period of time. So it doesn't really make sense that Fermi would have written it. Aarati: 25:45 Oh, interesting. Arpita: 25:46 Also, They were writing most things by hand, and people have compared the lab notes and notes written by Ettore with the same things that he wrote in the paper, and they don't really think it could be Fermi. Um, and finally, really just from a humanity standpoint, Fermi was a really big name. Like, he was kind of famous, even for his contemporaries. Aarati: 26:08 Yeah. Arpita: 26:10 Probably had a big ego and so like reasonably he wouldn't have passed off his work as someone else's even if he actually cared about Ettore like it seems kind of crazy that that would have happened so historians think that Fermi wrote it but then physicists kind of push back and they think that there's no chance. Aarati: 26:25 That's so weird. I, on one hand, I can't really imagine someone like Enrico Fermi, you know, applying for a job on behalf of somebody else. Arpita: 26:36 It seems kind crazy like it doesn't Aarati: 26:37 it does seem a bit crazy. Arpita: 26:39 Yeah. Aarati: 26:40 Yeah. Like, I can imagine pushing for a job and putting in a really strong recommendation or something, but actually going behind your back and like putting in that kind of effort to try and apply for a job for someone. Yeah, that's a bit crazy. Arpita: 26:56 No, totally. I agree with you. But ultimately the reason that he didn't get the job wasn't because the paper wasn't received well, or people didn't like the paper. It was because the faculty thought that he had such a singular, narrow level of expertise that he was offered a different position instead. Aarati: 27:13 Oh, ok. Arpita: 27:14 He started teaching quantum mechanics at the Naples Physics Institute in January 1938. And he was so brilliant that most of his peers, like other physicists, couldn't really follow him, let alone his students. So he did not make an effort to explain really anything in detail to his students. So his students really hated him because they never knew what he was talking about. He was just saying words Aarati: 27:39 Those professors are the worst. Arpita: 27:42 Those Yeah Ettore was for sure one of them. Aarati: 27:44 Oh, no, that's, that's so sad. That's terrible. I'm sorry to whoever was his student then. It's like, you know, they're brilliant, but at the same time... Arpita: 27:53 You're like, come on. Yeah. Aarati: 27:55 like, what are you even talking about? I just want to pass my midterm, please. That's all I want. It's I want. Arpita: 28:00 Those people for sure just belong in the lab. Like, yeah. Um, so around the same time as he's teaching at the Naples Physics Institute, he is theorizing about another particle, the neutrino, and this is what he eventually becomes most famous for. So, um, In the early 1930s, there was another scientist, Wolfgang Pauli, who was studying beta decay, which is a process where unstable atomic nucleus releases an electron. And the experiments that he was doing show something strange. So the energy of the emitted electron wasn't always the same and kind of seemed to defy the law of conservation of energy. Aarati: 28:42 Okay. Arpita: 28:43 So Pauli suggested that there was maybe a new unseen particle that was emitted alongside the electron during beta decay. And he called this particle a neutrino which would help make up for missing energy during these experiments. So there's something else being released with the electron to account for energy that was not being conserved along this emission and the neutrino. Aarati: 29:12 Okay. Arpita: 29:13 And building on this idea, Ettore was looking at all these experiments, looking at all of these results. And he proposed a different property for this particle and his theory suggested that a neutrino would indeed solve this problem and that it has these really unique qualities in which it can be its own antiparticle. That's the cool thing about neutrinos. So let's break that down. Aarati: 29:38 Yes, please. Like, okay. You lost me now. Yeah. Arpita: 29:44 So what an antiparticle is, is we have protons, which are a positive charge, and then they have an antiparticle, which are electrons because they are a negative charge. So there is like an equal and opposite component. Aarati: 29:57 Yes. Arpita: 29:58 Neutrinos can be their own antiparticle. So you have a neutrino neutrino and they can serve as particle and antiparticle. Aarati: 30:05 Oh, interesting. Okay. So neutrino is different than a neutron because a neutron just has a neutral charge, but a neutrino is one or like, it's like a pair almost. Like you have two neutrinos that one is kind of positive, one of it's negative Arpita: 30:23 I don't think it's a charge. I think that particles and antiparticles is like you're trying to balance out the scales. It doesn't always have to be a charge. Aarati: 30:32 Okay. Arpita: 30:33 Does that make sense? Aarati: 30:34 Yes. I'm just trying to see if I can... Arpita: 30:36 Tell me if you found something. Aarati: 30:38 Yeah, I'm, I'm still looking it up. It just says it's electrically neutral, so it doesn't look like it's a charge. Um, Yeah, we're starting to get into words I don't know. They're like talking about leptons and stuff. I'm like, what the heck? Arpita: 30:52 Yeah no. See, I tried to research this so much and then I was like, I think I'm just going to keep it simple on purpose. Aarati: 30:58 Yeah, Oh, so there's neutrinos and antineutrinos. And they have an oppositely signed lepton number. Arpita: 31:07 Yeah. See, it's not charge. It's not, charge, but it's like something that gives it an equal and opposite property. Aarati: 31:13 Okay. It's a conserved quantum number representing the difference between the number of leptons and anti leptons. Wow. This is... Arpita: 31:21 I have no idea what a lepton is, but yes. Aarati: 31:23 This is like those dictionary like definitions where they're like, what is a builder? And it's like someone who builds and it's like, thanks. That's really helpful. If I don't know what, what it's, that's kind of like the problem I'm running into. Arpita: 31:39 I want to make it clear that I chose this person for the true crime and not for the physics. Aarati: 31:44 Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Okay. So in this particular episode, the science is a little bit secondary because we have a very exciting story. Arpita: 31:54 Less secondary and more like we are limiting factor here is my understanding of theoretical physics. Aarati: 32:00 Of quantum physics? Arpita: 32:02 Yeah, that's what we're limited by. Aarati: 32:06 You know, maybe we can in the future invite a guest on and be like, okay, let's revisit this episode... Arpita: 32:11 Can you explain this to us? Yeah, Aarati: 32:12 explain the science to us, please. Thanks. Arpita: 32:15 Tell me all the things that I said wrong because there was probably 3000. Aarati: 32:18 Okay. So we have neutrinos and antineutrinos and that is special because they kind of balance each other out. Arpita: 32:26 Yes. Um, and they can modulate the amount of energy emitted. So they can help make up for missing energy and account for the laws of conservation of energy. Aarati: 32:38 Okay. Arpita: 32:38 This is what Ettore eventually becomes the most famous for in his physics discoveries. So in 1938, he takes a dip emotionally again. He starts having his GI issues again. He starts becoming really reclusive. And even at his very best, he was very introverted and shy, but then he stopped speaking and socializing. And. At one point on March 25th, he withdrew all of his money from the bank, and he sent a note to his boss, the director of the Naples Physics Institute where he was teaching, and he said, quote,"I have made a decision that was by now inevitable. It doesn't contain a single speck of selfishness, but I do recognize the inconvenience that my unanticipated disappearance may cause to the students and yourself. For this too, I beg you to forgive me, but above all, for having betrayed the trust, the sincere friendship, and the sympathy that you have so kindly offered me over the past few months. I beg you to, also, to remember me, but all those I've come to know and appreciate at your Institute in particular. But of all, I shall preserve the dearest memories at least until 11 o'clock this evening and possibly beyond." End quote. Aarati: 33:59 Oh no. Arpita: 34:02 But then, he followed this letter with a telegram and he told the, he told the director to disregard the message. Aarati: 34:12 I still have concerns. Alright? Arpita: 34:13 And then, and then, he wrote another letter, this time to his family, that read, quote,"I've got a single wish that you do not wear black for me. If you want to bow to custom, then bear some sign of mourning, but for no more than three days. After that, remember me, if you can, in your hearts, and forgive me." End quote. However, he never actually sent this to his family. Aarati: 34:38 Oh, okay. But. Oh, no. But that's, that's really good mind space. Like, I, I have serious concerns. I got that telegram as the head of this institute, I would be like, okay, we need to go... Arpita: 34:52 Yes. Aarati: 34:52 ...find him right now. Arpita: 34:53 Okay, so you and the director are thinking exactly the same. And this is where the true crime bit of this story starts to come into play. So I think for most people, these sort of read as a suicide note. And There are some tricky parts to this story though. So first, these were written in Italian, so the English translations are kind of hard to evaluate. So a lot of historians have said that he uses some words that in Italian have no direct translation to English, so it's hard to sort of evaluate as an English speaker. He also never mentions the word death at all in Italian or English. And some people have said that there are some handwriting characteristics that suicide notes usually have, but Ettore's letters, both to Director and his family, don't have this. His handwriting is very clean, with strong lines, and doesn't have any irregularity that suicide notes often have. Aarati: 35:52 Oh, cause like people are, when they're contemplating they might be a little emotional and shaky maybe. And so comes through in their handwriting, but his writing seemed very resolved, it sounds like? Arpita: 36:06 That's what it sounds like. I actually didn't know that there were handwriting characteristics for suicide notes, but that actually is a thing. Aarati: 36:13 It makes sense though. Arpita: 36:15 Yeah, I think it's also a, um, What is the word I'm looking for? Oh, like a forensic thing too, to decide if someone wrote the note versus someone wrote it on your behalf, uh, to make sure it actually is a suicide and to make sure that there's some things that happen in handwriting that are specific to people with suicide notes. Aarati: 36:36 interesting. Arpita: 36:36 I didn't really understand the details, but apparently that seems to be the case. Aarati: 36:40 Yeah. I bet it's another whole field of study. Arpita: 36:43 Probably. Aarati: 36:43 But I mean, just the language that he used of like, you know, until 11 o'clock tonight and yeah, that's like even if he didn't say the word death or anything, like that's still Arpita: 36:56 Right. Aarati: 36:56 Very, very concerning language. Arpita: 36:58 Very alarming. So then the day after he wrote these two notes, Ettore checked into a hotel in Palermo and then he wrote other notes that were far less grave, but still concerning. So he first telegrammed his boss again, a note that said, quote,"Don't be alarmed. A letter follows." end quote. That letter did arrive soon after, and that read, quote,"I hope that my letter and telegram have reached you together. The sea has rejected me, and tomorrow I will return to the Hotel Bologna,"-going, he's going back to the Naples Institute-"perhaps traveling together with the same letter. I have, however, decided to give up teaching. Don't take me for an Ibsen heroine, because the case is quite different. I am at your disposal for further details." End quote. So, obviously, this director is very concerned, and he calls Ettore's family immediately. Aarati: 37:52 Yeah, it sounds like he tried to drown himself, right? The sea has rejected me? Arpita: 37:57 Think it's because Naples is on the sea. I think it's because he has physically left the seaside. Aarati: 38:02 Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. Arpita: 38:04 Yeah. Um, and he's saying, I'm going to come back tomorrow is what say. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you're on the right track though. So the director calls Ettore's family immediately and his family went to Ettore's apartment and found the note that he wrote to his family sitting on the desk that he never sent. Aarati: 38:23 Mm-hmm. Arpita: 38:24 And then after March 26th, 1938, no one had contact with Ettore. So there is documentation that he took a ship from Palermo to Naples. He's going back and while on the ship, he talked to another professor from the University of Naples briefly. And this man is only important because he is supposedly the last person to ever talk to Ettore. There is no evidence that Ettore disembarked from the ship. And some people say that he never boarded the ship at all. So regardless, they start a search. The Majorana family offered a reward of 30, 000 Lire. And Benito Mussolini, who was the prime minister at the time, was contacted both by the Majorana family and Enrico Fermi, with pleas to search for Ettore, and Fermi especially, really, uh, made the case that he was so important to science and the advancement of Italy as a nation and Fermi said, quote,"I do not hesitate to declare, and this is not hyperbole, that of all the Italian and foreign scholars who I had the opportunity to meet, Majorana is the one who, for depth of genius, has impressed me the most." End quote. Aarati: 39:37 This is literally like if Albert Einstein went missing or something. Oh my gosh. Like, you've got the Prime Minister of Italy in on this search now. Arpita: 39:47 Yeah. Aarati: 39:47 This is crazy. Arpita: 39:49 It is crazy. And so they continue this search for a while, and they find no trace. And the last police note was filed on August 6th, 1938. And in December of the same year, the University of Naples made a formal decree that Ettore had resigned on March 25th, which is the day that he wrote that first letter to the director. And They cited abandonment of duty. I'm not super clear why they had to do this. I'm like, people think he's dead at this point, but think just for their, like, internal purposes, they had to, like, make this decree that he is, like, no longer in this post so they can open up the position again. Aarati: 40:25 Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. Arpita: 40:28 So he disappeared without a trace. And I think with a lot of stories that are like this, like a missing person case, there are lots of theories about what could have happened to him. So the most obvious one is that he died by suicide and the notes that he wrote his family and his boss, like we said, definitely seem like they are suicide notes. However, his family was insistent that as a devout Catholic, he never would have committed the sin of taking his life. And because they'd never found a body, the reigning theory is that he jumped into the sea while on a boat from Palermo to Naples. So that's why I was saying earlier, I was like, I think he hasn't jumped yet because he letter. Yes. And then there's record of him boarding the boat. So it couldn't have happened then, but it might've happened after. Aarati: 41:14 But that's still a really good point about him being Catholic, you know, and how it is such a sin to take your life. That is a very strong... Arpita: 41:22 yep. Aarati: 41:22 ...point in that favor. Arpita: 41:24 It is a strong point. And so to the Catholic point, because he was so well known as a Catholic, there's another theory that he left to go be a monk and join a monastery. And during this time period, a man matching Ettore's description went to a church in Naples and asked to be admitted into the religious order there. And there were apparently some logistics that needed to be worked out for him to join, so he just thanked them and disappeared. And another theory related to his faith, there was a member of the clergy who had taken Ettore's confession in church many, many times, and they talked this guy. And this member of the clergy said that Ettore had often had crises of faith, but that suicide was entirely out of the question. So both of these ideas, the monastery idea and the fact that he, this clergy member said that this is out of the question, hinge on this idea that Ettore saw the destructive power and the work that was being done in theoretical physics, and that drove him away from the field that he so excelled in and he didn't really have any desire to, like, be a part of it. Aarati: 42:42 Yeah. But, okay, so I get maybe he didn't commit suicide, but then on the other hand, if he didn't, and if he decided, I'm just gonna disappear or something, it's an awfully cruel thing to do to your family, to just up and disappear and like, leave a note like that, knowing that that's the last correspondence that they're gonna have from you, like, to just If you're, even if you're just like, I'm just going to disappear and I can't kill myself because I'm Catholic and that's a sin. So I'm just going to join a monastery or I'm just going to up and disappear. And to not let your family know, like, Hey, I'm okay. I just don't want you to contact me, but I'm all right. I'm alive. I'm doing my thing. Please leave me alone. Just so that they have that peace of mind. is, I don't know, like, so then that pushes me back towards, like, he must have committed suicide then because, like, who would do that to their family and the people he's worked with? Like, that's crazy to me. Both theories seem equally implausible at this point, so now I'm like, also, I don't know what happened. Arpita: 43:46 Okay. Because I have more theories for you. Aarati: 43:47 Great. Yes please. I need more. Arpita: 43:49 So, continuing on the fact that he was maybe not interested in this destructive power of physics. So some people are convinced that Ettore decided to disappear because he saw that nuclear forces would lead to nuclear explosives that were many, many more times powerful than conventional bombs. And then he just wanted nothing to do with the field. However, other physicists, physicists claim that given the state of the field at the time, and the fact that particle physics was just getting started, there's no way that anyone could have predicted that a heavy nucleus could be broken down to trigger nuclear fission. They're like, there's no way you would have made that leap. Aarati: 44:28 Even if you were the Italian Albert Einstein? Arpita: 44:31 These are just theories.. Aarati: 44:32 Yeah. Arpita: 44:33 Another idea that's become a little bit more popular is that he may have actually been murdered by Nazis. So Ettore, as you might remember earlier from our story, worked very closely from Werner Heisenberg, who eventually worked on Germany's nuclear weapons project during the second world war. And this was based on some of the science that they worked on together. So people who support this theory believe that because Ettore became kind of a loose end because he kind of disappeared. He went from there to Copenhagen, um, was just after that because he just kinda a loose end Aarati: 45:12 That's an interesting theory, but then at the same time, those letters really just give me pause. Like, what a coincidence that you wrote those letters about how you're, murdered you. and then yeah, and it just so happens that at that time, that's when, yeah, oh my gosh, it just, it's such a mystery. That's so confusing. Arpita: 45:29 Yeah, it's so interesting. Okay, so then, like a lot of missing person cases, there's all these potential sightings that people report. Aarati: 45:39 Mm-hmm. Arpita: 45:40 He was allegedly spotted in a convent in Portici, Italy on April 12th. So this was about two weeks after he originally disappeared and he reportedly came there and asked to join the religious order. And then much, much later in the 1970s, a number of sightings were reported in Argentina. Aarati: 46:01 Okay. But this would have been like 30 years later, right? Arpita: 46:04 30 years many years later, Yeah. It got resurrected. One of these sightings, which was reported by a Chilean physicist, Carlo Rivera Cruchaga and he said that he met a woman named Mrs. Talbert, who claimed to know Ettore in Buenos Aires in 1951. And that this woman who told him that Ettore was friends with her son, identified him in a photo that Rivera had with him. Aarati: 46:32 Oh. Arpita: 46:33 So Rivera returned to Buenos Aires in 1954 and was trying to meet Ettore. And then he found out that Mrs. Talbert was no longer living there and couldn't find her. He went back again in 1961, and then this time he said that he saw a waiter who was able to confirm that Ettore would come in and work on physics equations and mention another scientist who would sit and work with him as well. So then these rumors started that he had this whole new life in South America, that he'd been there for years, and some of these sightings seemed to back it up. Aarati: 47:10 Interesting. Arpita: 47:11 Then in 2008, another piece of evidence emerged and a man named Francesco Fassani called into the Italian news program, Who Has Seen It? And he claimed to have a photo of Ettore, although he knew this man as"Mr. Bini". And Fassani said that the man that he met in Venezuela in 1955 was in his fifties, was very shy and very refined in his manners. And this matches because this theoretical man, Mr. Bini was about the same age that Ettore would have been and had similar like shy demeanor as previous accounts. This sighting reopened a case in Rome in 2011. And they used facial recognition software to show that there was 10 points of facial structure on the photo of the mystery man, Mr. Bini, that coincided with a known photo of Ettore. And based on this, a public prosecutor ruled that Ettore had indeed lived in Venezuela and was able to say that his death was not due to homicide or suicide. Aarati: 48:20 Wait. So they think they found him? Arpita: 48:22 Yeah, they think they found him. Aarati: 48:24 Did they do any, like, further testing? Maybe you're going to get to that. But, like, just off the picture? Like, Arpita: 48:29 Just a picture. Aarati: 48:30 Like, DNA, Arpita: 48:32 They didn't have DNA. They just had this photo. This random dude said that he knew him in the fifties Aarati: 48:38 Mm hmm. Arpita: 48:39 And he called it in 2008 and said, I have a picture of this guy. Aarati: 48:43 Oh my God. Okay. Okay. And that's like, the only evidence they have. Arpita: 48:47 It's the only evidence they have. Aarati: 48:48 I don't know if I believe it, but ok. Yes. Arpita: 48:51 So you're with a lot of other people. Um, Not everyone accepts this ruling. Some people really buy the religious crisis thing. Um, they're really just like not into the fact that he just like up and moved. They're like, this sighting is not conclusive. Like, I don't think we can make this claim. So the bottom line is regardless, we don't know how he ended up dying. Um, he's almost certainly dead by now, given the fact that he was born in 1906. So Aarati: 49:18 yeah. Arpita: 49:18 But Aarati: 49:19 The world's oldest physicist. Arpita: 49:21 Yeah, like, we don't know how he died eventually, um, and there's so many unanswered questions, like, why did he leave so unceremoniously, like, even if he had all these other things, like, what was the reason, like, what were his motives, and I just said, we have no idea how his life ultimately ended. And something that I was reading also, which I thought was a nice conclusion for this is that he came from this family of really high achievers and was surrounded by the top scientists of the time. And so many of these people had huge egos and, like, couldn't bear the idea of someone, like, usurping them. Um, and there's just so much that he could have done, just, like, didn't happen. And he, like, would have been right there with household names based on how brilliant he was. But yeah, we just don't know. We don't know what could have been. Aarati: 50:13 But does give me another, like, a little bit of an answer maybe. Like, if he did leave his family and he did leave all the people he was working with, he might have just been buckling under pressure, you know? And I I could see that, I guess. Like, if he didn't want to disappoint his family, he didn't want to disappoint the people he was working with by saying that"I don't want to work on these physics problems anymore," for whatever reason, either he saw that it was going to be used for bad purposes in the future, or he didn't, and he was just over it, and he was just like, I'm not interested in working on this anymore, it's just all too much for me, but how do I tell my high achieving family and like the people around me who expect so much from that I'm just not into it anymore, there's no way they would accept that as an answer. So rather than face that disappointment I'm just going to, I'm just going to peace off to South America. Bye guys. So I, like, on the one hand, I can't see someone doing that to their family and their loved ones, but on the other hand, yeah, if he was feeling a lot of guilt and shame, I think I could see it. So, it's such a mystery. Arpita: 51:26 But yeah, that's the case of Ettore Majorana. We don't, we don't know. We don't know what happened to this guy, but... Aarati: 51:35 That is fascinating. I would, I would almost assume that, like, the fact that he disappeared without a trace would make him even more of a household name. Arpita: 51:44 Yeah like an Amelia Earhart situation. Aarati: 51:46 Yeah exactly! That's so weird that I've never heard of him before. And he was right up there with Enrico Fermi and Niels Bohr and all these people. And I would just assume I would have known him even more because of the fact that he disappeared under such mysterious circumstances. So It's really weird he was kind of lost to time. What a great story. I'm fascinated now. Arpita: 52:08 I'm glad you like the little true crime crossover. Aarati: 52:10 Yeah. I think I'm going to go into a rabbit hole after this. Like trying to figure out all the things like I'm going to, I'm going to learn Italian. I'm going to be like reading the original letter. Arpita: 52:19 This was like a, a good story to bookend my Italian summer trip. Aarati: 52:24 Yeah. Yeah. Go see if you can visit the University of Naples. Go see if you can track him down. Arpita: 52:29 Yeah, Seriously. Aarati: 52:30 Find his family, do some interviews. Oh my gosh., Amazing, amazing story. That was great. Arpita: 52:36 Great, I'm glad you liked it. Aarati: 52:39 Thanks for listening. If you have a suggestion for a story we should cover, or thoughts you want to share about an episode, reach out to us at smarttpodcast. com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at smarttpodcast, and listen to us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And leave us a rating or comment. It really helps us grow. New episodes are released every other Wednesday. See you next time.
Sources for this Episode
1. Magueijo, Joao. A Brilliant Darkness: The Extraordinary Life and Mysterious Disappeance of Ettore Majorana, the Troubled Genius of the Nuclear Age. Basic Books. 2009. ISBN 0465020089, 9780465020089.
​2. "Ettore Majorana: genius and mystery". Cern Courier. July 24, 2006.
​3. Holstein, Barry R. "The mysterious disappearance of Ettore Majorana". 2009 J. Phys.: Conf. Ser. 173 012019.
​4. Ettore Majorana. Wikipedia.
​5. The Life and Disappearance of Ettore Majorana. YouTube. Stuff You Missed in History Class. November 6, 2023.