Arpita: 0:08 Hi, Aarati. Aarati: 0:09 Hi, Arpita. How are you? Arpita: 0:11 I'm good. I'm excited to start our first episode together. Aarati: 0:15 Yes. It's the very first episode. I'm so excited. This is a podcast where we'll be exploring the lives of Scientists and inventors and seeing how culture and society shaped their work. Arpita: 0:28 Yeah. I think it's, like, often overlooked. Like, I think we, like, think about some of these scientists in history, and really just their, like, Two or three, like, big achievements. But, I mean, I think we just, like, forget that they're, like, real people with, like, Big, full, complicated, weird as hell lives. Aarati: 0:47 Yeah. That's always been a really big issue that I've seen that people often think that science kind of happens in this black box, and This pill was just made by magic or, you know you know? Arpita: 1:01 It just happens in a vacuum. Aarati: 1:03 Exactly. Or the other thing that I've seen the other trope that I've seen is, like, a lot of times in TVs and movies, scientists are portrayed as these, like, super, uber smart, Yet very socially inept people, who just cannot possibly connect with, the regular person or Have no interest in pop culture or anything. And I'm like, that's not true at all. And in fact, a lot of times, it's Exactly the opposite. A lot of scientists get into their line of work or their field because of something that they observed Or because of something that they saw in the world that they wanted to fix or they wanted to solve or understand how it worked. Arpita: 1:43 Yeah. Definitely. I think Not all of us are like Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory. Aarati: 1:49 Exactly. Yeah. You just have that mental image of, like, a gigantic nerd who's like, Who's Taylor Swift? And it's like, you know, no. Arpita: 1:58 We're not all like that. Aarati: 2:00 Yeah. They're actually the rare few. So, yeah, I hope that by sharing stories like this, even the most famous scientists, even the ones that have made the biggest breakthroughs, um, If we share their lives and, you know, the things that they had to overcome or the things that helped them, we can see how their family or their friends or, you know, something in society and the culture they were living with actually helped them or actually hindered them, and we can see that it very much in did influence their work and, you know, the achievements that they made. Arpita: 2:38 Totally agree. Should we jump in to the first episode then? Aarati: 2:41 Yeah. Let's do our first story. So, the first story we're doing is Alfred Noble, and I thought that this was a great story for the first episode, because everyone knows the Nobel Prizes. I mean, that's what he is known for. He's known for giving credit to scientists and people who make breakthroughs in their field. And that is kind of what this podcast is also about. So that's where we're starting. Arpita: 3:09 Is he Nobel or noble? Aarati: 3:11 Nobel. Did I say noble? Arpita: 3:12 You did say noble. Aarati: 3:14 Sorry. Arpita: 3:14 No, it's okay. Aarati: 3:16 We're starting off great. Arpita: 3:17 We are. Aarati: 3:18 Nobel. I'm sorry. Okay, so Alfred Bernhard Nobel was born on October Stockholm, Sweden. His mother was Karolina Andriette and his father was Immanuel. Together, the couple had a total of eight children, but only four of them survived to adulthood. They are Alfred's two older brothers, Ludvig and Robert. And then there's Alfred, he's the third one, and then he had a younger brother, Emil. So, Immanuel, Alfred's father, was an inventor and engineer, and he was a pretty decent businessman in the building industry. But that same year that Alfred was born, there were a multiple business failures that resulted in the loss of money there, and then plus the loss of some ships that had building material on them, and so that forced Immanuel's company to declare bankruptcy. So Immanuel decides to try his luck abroad. He moved to Finland and then he moved to St. Petersburg, Russia, where he started a new mechanical shop that made explosive mines, steam engines, furnaces, and other mechanical tools. Meanwhile, his wife Karolina stayed behind in Stockholm to raise Alfred and his siblings. Karolina was from a wealthy family, so she was able to use her family's wealth to start a grocery store, and that made enough income to support herself and the children while her husband was setting up this new business in, uh, St. Petersburg. After a few short years, Immanuel's business venture started to take off, but what really turned his fortunes around was when he secured a meeting with Tsar Nicholas I. So, he told so, he told the Tsar about his plans for creating submerged sea mines and how they could be used against shipping vessels. Arpita: 5:03 Wait, what's a submerged sea mine? Aarati: 5:06 So, basically, instead of a landmine, he was working on a way that you could place the sea mine or the mine underwater, and then it could be used to basically blow up ships. And the Tsar was like, that is a great idea for when we're, like, especially during times of war, like, the Tsar immediately saw the value of that and was like, yes, I want to be a part of that. Can you make those for me? Arpita: 5:33 Wait, so it, like, gets placed underwater and it's not to, like, mine, like Minerals and stuff. It's really just like Aarati: 5:40 No Arpita: 5:41 Okay Aarati: 5:41 It it was it was definitely more of a wartime thing. Like you can use this against enemy military ships so, basically, the Tsar realized immediately that that was a useful thing, and he gave Immanuel a contract, to build arms for the Russian military. So, that's huge, like, can you imagine getting a contract with the government? Like, any government. Arpita: 6:03 Yeah, literally life changing. Aarati: 6:05 Immediately. So there was a huge boost in business. And so in 1842, Immanuel sent for Karolina and his children to come live with him in St. Petersburg. And so at this point, Alfred is nine years old, and the family's living the high life now. Um, thanks to Immanuel's business, the family is now prosperous and they could afford to hire private tutors for their children instead of attending a regular school. Um, Alfred had always been pretty sickly and shy as a child, but he was very smart, very studious, um, and very curious about the world around him. He particularly liked literature, chemistry, and physics. And he learns to speak six languages. French, Swedish, languages. Yeah. French, Swedish, German, Italian, English, and Russian. I was just like, I can barely speak the one. Arpita: 6:57 Okay, but like, why? Aarati: 7:01 I know, right? He just, he loved literature and, um, I mean, he wasn't like, fluent in all of them, but still, I think he could carry on a decent conversation in most. Um, he loved poetry, he was a huge fan of Shakespeare and Percy Shelley, the poet. And in fact, by the time he was 16, he was seriously thinking about becoming an author or a poet himself. However Immanuel, his father, wanted his sons to follow in his footsteps and take up the family business and all be engineers. So he told Alfred that if he focused on helping the family business grow, he would pay for Alfred to study abroad in Europe and America. Arpita: 7:39 Alright, so like parental guilt is like traversing many generations, it sounds like. Aarati: 7:44 Yeah, so, but I mean, Alfred thought that was a great deal, I mean, yeah, I would like to go Arpita: 7:49 I mean, it's not, not a great deal. Aarati: 7:51 Yeah, go study abroad, so yeah, so Alfred agreed, he was like, alright, sure, I'll do that. And so, when he was 17, his father sent him to Paris to study chemistry for a year, under the guidance of a chemist named Professor T. J. Pelouze. I really don't know if I'm pronouncing that right, but P E L O U Z E. Arpita: 8:14 I don't know. I don't speak French. That's not one of my languages. Yeah, maybe someone smart as us can tell us how to pronounce. Aarati: 8:21 Yeah. T. J. Palouze. Okay. But there he met a young Italian chemist who's also studying under the same professor, and that young chemist's name is Ascanio Sobrero, and Alfred learned that three years prior him coming to Paris in 1847, Ascanio had created a substance that he called pyroglycerin, which eventually people came to call nitroglycerin. Oh. Um, yeah. So Ascanio Sobrero had kind of accidentally created this by mixing concentrated nitric and sulfuric acids and then adding glycerol, which is a sugar alcohol. And it created this oily, toxic liquid, and it was extremely unstable, and even a small jolt or slight friction would cause it to explode, So Ascanio apparently put some in a test tube and tried heating it up and it exploded, sending glass shards flying everywhere and scarring his hands and face. Arpita: 9:21 Oh my god. Aarati: 9:22 Okay, get this. This'll tell you what a different time it is, okay? So he tried putting a small drop of it on his tongue to see what it tasted like. Arpita: 9:32 Oh my god. After the glass exploded? Aarati: 9:36 I don't know if it was before or after, to be fair. Arpita: 9:39 I feel like that matters. Aarati: 9:41 I don't know if it does, because like today in science, would you ever like mix chemicals together and be like, I wonder what this tastes like? I think that's like, the rule you learn in high school chemistry is like, you're not even supposed to smell things directly, let alone put it in your mouth. Arpita: 9:59 Or touch them with your bare hands. Aarati: 10:02 Yeah, like Arpita: 10:03 I feel like this makes me think of, um, I don't remember who the scientist was, but the person who like discovered diabetes was like tasting urine. And if it was like, Aarati: 10:12 Oh, yeah. Arpita: 10:13 Yeah. Do you remember this? I feel like it's like one of those bio stories where one of the like some doctor. Was like trying to figure out what was happening with his patients And so he started like tasting their urine and then he realized that when it was like really sweet they weren't metabolizing Glucose and that was like diabetes. Aarati: 10:33 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Arpita: 10:34 their urine tasted really sweet. So he was literally just Aarati: 10:38 Yeah. Arpita: 10:38 You know, taking, taking a dip people, Aarati: 10:41 the mid 18 hundreds, Arpita: 10:43 just crazy. Yeah. It was a, they were wild for sure. Aarati: 10:46 Very different time. I'm so glad we've moved past that. Arpita: 10:49 Yeah. We have safety standards now. Aarati: 10:52 Yeah, exactly. Um, but he did. He, he put a small drop on his tongue and said it tasted sweet and gave him a headache. So here's your quick chemistry lesson about nitroglycerin. Arpita: 11:03 Okay. I'm kind of scared, but also ready. Aarati: 11:06 Yes, okay, you should be. If you look at a molecule of nitroglycerin, it's made up of nitrogen, carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen atoms that are all held together by bonds. And when it decomposes, or in this case we call that detonates, when it detonates, the bonds break apart and the atoms rearrange to form stable gases like nitrogen gas, water vapor, carbon dioxide, and oxygen. However, it's the speed at which this decomposition happens that makes it so dangerous. Here are some big numbers for you. The liquid nitroglycerin turns into a gas at over 20 times faster than the speed of sound. Arpita: 11:47 So, wow, I don't even know how to rationalize that number. So incredibly fast. Aarati: 11:54 Very fast, yes. Um, when the bond Arpita: 11:57 Oh, sorry. Aarati: 11:58 Yeah, go ahead. Arpita: 11:59 No, I was gonna say, and how does the, like, detonation happen? Is it just because it's so unstable on its own, or is it because it's like, like a heat, or some sort of change to its structure? Like, what's causing the detonation? Aarati: 12:11 Basically nitroglycerin itself is very unstable, so any sort of, like, sudden movement or like when it heats up or if there's like a friction or a spark or something that can cause the bonds in one of the molecules to break and that kind of radiates out. Arpita: 12:28 Yeah, it's like a chain reaction. Aarati: 12:29 Yeah. Arpita: 12:30 So the whole thing is already unstable. It doesn't take much. Aarati: 12:33 Yeah, exactly. So this liquid is turning into a gas at 20 times faster than the speed of sound. When the bonds break they release heat energy, um, which is up to 9000 degrees Fahrenheit. And when the gases are formed they expand to up to 1200 times the volume that the liquid had. Arpita: 12:55 So big boom. Aarati: 12:57 Yes. So you have this huge amount of heat released, plus these gases expanding outwards, all happening almost instantaneously. And then on top of all that, it creates a shockwave and an enormous amount of pressure. with waves that move outward at over 17, 000 miles per hour, which is strong enough to blast through rock. And all of this, again, happening in a fraction of a second. And that is what we call an explosion. Once Ascanio realized all of this, he was so scared by his own discovery that he kept it secret for almost a year after he discovered it. Um, he didn't want anyone to know about this, because he was like, this is way too dangerous, we should not let this even see the light of day. But when Alfred heard about it, he was like, ooh, that has potential, and he made a mental note. Okay, so we're just gonna stick a pin in that and come back to it, um, but let's keep following Alfred. So after his time with Professor Pelouze in Paris, Alfred traveled to the United States to study under the Swedish American inventor John Ericsson. Who had helped design the first iron clad warship, the USS Monitor. So I feel like that's a whole other story that we could even get into. Arpita: 14:19 There's some part of my 7th grade social studies that feels like I vaguely remember that, but I couldn't tell you a damn thing about it, so. Aarati: 14:24 Yeah, I don't remember, I don't know anything about it, but maybe we will in a future episode. But after a brief stay there, he returns to his family business in Russia in 1852, as he promised his father. So, at this point, his family business employs about 1, 000 people. And from 1853 to 1856, the Nobel family business does very well supplying arms and machinery to the Russian military during the Crimean War. Um, however, when Russia loses the war, the Russian government stops ordering arms from the Nobels, which is a really big loss for the business. Arpita: 15:01 Yeah. And they just didn't have a need for it anymore? Aarati: 15:04 I guess not. It was, it was a peaceful time afterwards and during that time of peace, the Nobel business couldn't generate enough income from all the other smaller sources that they had. Um, so the business couldn't stay afloat. So in 1859, they were forced to declare bankruptcy and they liquidated whatever assets they could and gave most of the remaining business to the two older brothers, Ludvig and Robert. Arpita: 15:32 Okay. Not, Alfred. Aarati: 15:34 Yeah, not Alfred. Um, Ludvig and Robert actually ended up turning around the business pretty well and became very wealthy in their own right, so they, they, they did a good job for themselves. But meanwhile, Alfred moved back with his parents, uh, to Sweden. Okay, so now, going back to nitroglycerin, so, Alfred had told his father about the explosive but unpredictable compound that Ascanio Sobrero had discovered, And throughout the Crimean War, they had been actually working together to try and develop nitroglycerin into an arms weapon that could be safely and reliably detonated, and therefore made into an arms weapon that they could sell to the Russian military. Arpita: 16:16 Yeah, would that go back to like the mine situation, or is that not Aarati: 16:19 Yeah, I think, you know, like Immanuel, Alfred's father, and, like, the whole family business, they were all very interested in explosives and mines and ammunition in general, so, um, I think that's why Alfred got, like, a bit excited when he heard about nitroglycerin in the first place. He's like, ooh, a new explosive compound that maybe we could do something with. Arpita: 16:42 And he was gonna have to go back to work in the family business anyway, so then, here was this, new idea that he could, maybe try. Aarati: 16:48 Exactly, and Ascanio Sobrero wasn't doing anything with it either. Ascanio was like, no, this is too scary, I don't want to touch it, it's too dangerous. And so Alfred's like, I'll do it, you know, so. He and his father were trying to turn it into an arms weapon during the Crimean War so that they could sell it to the Russian military, but they weren't successful during that time. Um, but Alfred did make a minor breakthrough when he realized that although nitroglycerin could not be detonated by a fuse, which would have been useful because if you had a fuse and you could just You know, reliably detonate nitroglycerin, you know, you could do something with it to make it a reliable and sort of safe explosive that you knew was going to detonate only when you wanted it to. Arpita: 17:31 Not like randomly or with any sort of small, small change. Aarati: 17:35 Yeah, exactly. So, unfortunately, nitroglycerin couldn't be detonated by a fuse, but gunpowder could. So, if he mixed a small amount of gunpowder into the nitroglycerin and then ignited that with a fuse, He could cause the nitroglycerin to explode. So he created this mixture of nitroglycerin and gunpowder, which he called blasting oil. And Arpita: 17:59 Blasting oil. Aarati: 18:00 Yes, which was still very unstable. I'm like, you know, be clear about that. It was very unstable, but at least now it could be reliably detonated. And so now Alfred is seriously starting to think about commercialization. He's like, this is great. And then I read this thing that said, uh, his. What, so they discovered this while they were still in St. Petersburg with the family business. And so his brothers Ludvig and Robert helped him with large scale, quote unquote, large scale testing on a frozen canal on the outskirts of St. Petersburg, which I was like, that's just like three boys blowing up things on a canal. I think. Arpita: 18:40 That can't have ended well for literally anybody. They were just like out there blowing shit up. That's bad. Aarati: 18:49 Yeah, but, I mean, okay, so even if you, I think, like, if, even if you take away the wartime aspect of how nitroglycerin could be used, there is some merit to what Alfred was trying to do, like, even in, even during times of peace, nitro, having nitroglycerin or having this very explosive tool could be very useful, especially when building infrastructure, so, think about things like construction, mining, engineering, uh, people in those fields have to demolish things all the time, you know, you have to build a tunnel through mountain which is solid rock so that your train can go through the mountain instead of going around it or whatever. So there's a lot of practical applications even during times of peace where having a reliable strong explosive could be very useful. So I do understand the... Arpita: 19:42 The amount of like effort you would need to like detonate nitroglycerin is probably so low compared to how much energy it produces. So then it's probably hugely advantageous as opposed to using like, you know, thousands of hours of manual labor or something like that. So like, yeah, I totally get the commercialization. It does. seem insane that this thing was so unstable and they were just messing around with it, but yes, I'm waiting to hear the story. Aarati: 20:07 Yes, that's good foreshadowing, by the way. Arpita: 20:11 I knew. Aarati: 20:13 So once he's back in Stockholm Alfred Devotes himself fully to finding a way to make nitroglycerin safe to manufacture and handle. He sets up a small factory on his father's estate to manufacture blasting oil and sell it, but also keep running experiments to improve the safety of it. Arpita: 20:32 Okay, that feels like progress. I really am stuck on blasting oil. I feel like he really needs to, like, work on the naming of that, but Yeah. Aarati: 20:40 Yeah. Okay, so kind of side note here. When Ascanio Sobrero heard about this That Alfred and his family were trying to commercialize nitroglycerin, he was appalled. He had always strongly opposed any type of commercialization for nitroglycerin because he knew how dangerous it was. Right. And he would have no part of it. And I mean, like, to be fair, Alfred had always given credit to Ascanio Sobrero for discovering nitroglycerin, but Sobrero was like, I want no part of this. People should not have their hands on this stuff. They should not know about this. This should not be a thing. Um, so Alfred is like, yeah, I didn't discover it. He did, but I'm the one who's going to commercialize it. Arpita: 21:26 That feels interesting from like what I like know about scientists is that like people want credit so much and like want to be involved, especially. I mean, this is not the same thing, but I'm thinking about like small molecule research that like then becomes like used and like. You know, translational medicine and things like that. And like, people want to be Involved in like the longevity of like research. So it is kind of interesting, although I do hear that he's just like this is crazy dangerous and like I don't want to be responsible for anything bad that happens. But it does feel kind of interesting from like a modern science perspective where like credit and publications feel like the most ultimate thing that you're searching for. Aarati: 22:07 Yeah, yeah. But to your point, like, that is a great segue into this next point, because, you know, Ascanio was scared, exactly, exactly as you said, he was scared of what he had discovered, and he definitely had a point, because in September of 1864, a preparation of nitroglycerin in a small laboratory shed overheated and exploded, immediately killing five people, including Alfred's younger brother, Emil. Arpita: 22:37 Oh no. Aarati: 22:39 I know. And Emil was only 21. That was pretty tragic. Um, and at one point in his life, Sobrero said, quote, When I think of all the victims killed during nitroglycerin explosions and the terrible havoc that has been wreaked, which in all probability will continue to occur in the future, I'm almost ashamed to admit to be its discoverer. So... Arpita: 23:02 I mean, I kind of get it. Like, I kind of get it. Like, you basically have that on your conscience, and that feels, that feels bad, for sure. Aarati: 23:11 Yeah, I, I don't know. I feel like at that point I would have just given up, if it were me, like. And, like, could you imagine losing a sibling to your research, like, because of what you're messing around with, because of what you're Arpita: 23:23 That would be immediate career change for me. Aarati: 23:26 Yeah, exactly. Arpita: 23:26 Like, I'd be, like, literally done. I would be like, I don't want to do science ever again in my whole life. Aarati: 23:31 I know. I know. Arpita: 23:32 Um, I can't even imagine that. But, Aarati: 23:35 I mean, Arpita: 23:36 his point of just being like, I don't want to be Because, like, if your name is attached to something, right, like, that's his reputation now, that he's, like, this thing that has, like, inflicted pain and suffering upon all these people. But, yeah, that's tough. I don't even know what I'd do. Aarati: 23:52 But the explosion drew the attention of the Swedish government who apparently didn't know that the Nobel family was messing around with explosives in Stockholm, and they were like, you can't do this in Stockholm, you can't mess around with explosives, are you crazy? And they banned nitroglycerin. Yeah, exactly. So they banned nitroglycerin experimentation within city limits. Okay, so not, you just can't do it in Stockholm. Yeah. That's it. Arpita: 24:20 The country side is fair game. Aarati: 24:22 Yeah, exactly. So, um, so despite this ban in Stockholm and despite the devastating loss of his brother, Alfred became more determined than ever to create a safer version of nitroglycerin. And I think the way he saw this was that he didn't want his brother's death to be in vain. So this is like, I need to create a safer version of this for Emil for my brother. Um, so Alfred bought the whole area of Vinterviken, Sweden, which is just 17 miles west of Stockholm, which is very rural and surrounded by cliffs, and therefore much safer for his experiments. And he established a new company called Nitroglycerin Aktiebolaget. I'm sure I'm saying that wrong. Aktiebolaget AB, nitroglycerin AB. Arpita: 25:14 Okay, we'll call it that. Aarati: 25:15 Which basically means it's a limited company. And he even had a barge, or a large boat, on the nearby Lake Malaren, where he could conduct experiments. Arpita: 25:26 So, a little bit Away from the people. Aarati: 25:29 Yeah, taking safety into account a little bit more. Um, and eventually he also got permission to build factories in Germany and Scotland where workers had to sit in wooden sheds separated by earthen walls so that if a sample of nitroglycerin did explode again, only one to two people would be. Injured or killed. Arpita: 25:50 Jesus Christ. Aarati: 25:52 Yeah. Little bit. Taking safety into account just a little bit more. We're learning. Arpita: 25:58 Can you imagine, like, writing that in, like, an IRB or safety protocol now? And it's like, if we do this, only, like, one person will die. Aarati: 26:04 Yeah, exactly. So, yes. We're fine. And the German government and the Scotland government are like, great, that sounds good. You can build your factory here. We like these safety precautions. That sounds reasonable. Arpita: 26:17 That's wild. OSHA could never. Aarati: 26:19 I know. But this is shocking. Even so, accidental explosions continued to happen at his factory in Vinterviken, and his factory was destroyed more than once. And then in 1866, there was a serious accident in his factory in Germany. And this is actually where Alfred got lucky, because as he's cleaning up the mess, he realized that if he mixed nitroglycerin with the soil that was around the German factory, it became stable. And it formed this clay like substance that could be handled safely and molded into different shapes. But it would not detonate if it was heated or accidentally dropped. So, win! Arpita: 27:00 Incredible. Aarati: 27:02 Yeah. So, he had been trying to mix the nitroglycerin with different things for a while, like coal, cement, and sawdust, to get this exact effect, but it turned out the soil around the German factory was special, because it was, Made up of this fine, porous, diatomaceous earth that contained tiny particles of fossilized algae, and that stabilized the nitroglycerin. Arpita: 27:27 So it's almost just like really porous, it sounds like, like the soil itself, like, it's just like really porous, has these little holes, and if the nitroglycerin is kind of like, oily, kind of, then it like, would permeate and like, turn into this like, congealed mass that's now, I'm just like, imagining like, Forbidden play doh, and he's just like, creating these little shapes, and he's just like, alright, here are my little bombs. Aarati: 27:50 Yes, exactly, that's pretty much forbidden play doh, I like it. Yes, so, now in 1867, Alfred officially patents dynamite. He originally called it Nobel's blasting powder, but then he changed the name to dynamite. Arpita: 28:06 Yeah, yeah. Not, not amazing. That's maybe not his strong suit. Aarati: 28:10 Yeah, but, you know, he came up with dynamite, and that comes from the ancient Greek word dynamis, which means power. So dynamite specifically is the combination of nitroglycerin, diatomaceous earth, and gunpowder, which can all be detonated by another one of Alfred's patented inventions, which he called the blasting cap, which essentially is a small metal cap containing a charge of, mercury fulminate that could be exploded either by electric shock or heat. So, basically, you have a fuse that ignites the mercury fulminate in the blasting cap, which ignites the gunpowder, which then ignites the nitroglycerin. Arpita: 28:55 Okay. And then the earth, the soil, is really just there to like hold it all together. Aarati: 29:00 Yeah, and stabilize the nitroglycerin so the nitroglycerin doesn't go off by itself, randomly. Arpita: 29:06 Yeah. Makes sense. Aarati: 29:07 So, in the patent, Alfred said, My new explosive, called dynamite, is simply nitroglycerin in combination with very porous silicate. It is a reddish yellow, soft and plastic mass that is pressed into cartridges of a certain thickness and then enclosed in paper wrappers. So you know that classic shape of dynamite that you see in cartoons like with the rod and the fuse coming out of the end? Yeah, so that shape was actually very useful in mining because they could be inserted into drilling holes to blast rock apart. So that's why you have that shape. Arpita: 29:43 It's easy to manipulate, easy to use, it's like small. Aarati: 29:48 Yeah, exactly. And because of that, uh, Dynamite turned out to be one of the tools that drastically reduced the cost of construction work. Um, and it totally changed the industry and made Alfred super rich. Arpita: 30:02 Love that, for him. Aarati: 30:03 Okay, few more big numbers. So over his lifetime, Alfred was issued 355 patents internationally. Arpita: 30:11 Wow. Aarati: 30:12 Yes. Arpita: 30:12 It's like the same dynamite, but like, every country that issues a patent is a different one? Aarati: 30:17 No, not every country... Well, he all, he had, he was a very prolific inventor. So it was all stuff around, Okay. Manufactured explosives, gunpowder based compounds, fuses, blasting caps, like, all sorts of stuff, but he did actually have a few other kind of, like, random ones, like, he had improvements to synthetic rubber, artificial silk, uh, gas meters, leather making, so, just, you know. Arpita: 30:43 Just dabbled. Aarati: 30:44 Just dabbled in everything, but I mean, armaments, explosives, that's really where he made most of his money, um, and most of his patents are in that. And there are two patents here, in particular, that I need to mention. Um, one, which he patented in 1875, was called a gelignite, which is essentially nitroglycerin, but mixed with a gelatinized wood pulp and salt peter, which is sodium nitrate or potassium nitrate. And that makes a jelly that is more powerful and more stable than dynamite. And could be used underwater. Arpita: 31:23 Wow, okay, so now we have forbidden Play Doh and forbidden Jell-O. Aarati: 31:27 Yeah, forbidden Jell-O, yes. Arpita: 31:29 And it's like, you can use it underwater because, is it because the earth or the soil is gonna like, disintegrate? Is that why? Is that why it's better? So it's almost like, Aarati: 31:38 I don't know, I didn't look that up. Yeah, I didn't look that up. I'm not sure why gelignite was able to be used underwater, whereas dynamite wasn't. It might have something to do with how it was detonated, but I'm not sure. Arpita: 31:52 Mm hmm. Because like gunpowder, you can't get wet, right? I feel like I know that. Aarati: 31:55 Yeah. Oh yeah, that's true. Maybe that's the reason. Yeah. Arpita: 31:58 Maybe that's why, because like Aarati: 31:59 That might be why. Arpita: 32:00 That's a fact that I probably learned Pirates of the Caribbean when I was like 11, but you can't get, you can't get gunpowder wet, otherwise it won't ignite. Aarati: 32:08 That's true. Yeah, so that might be why actually. That's smart. gOod job. I think you figured it out. No, I have no idea. If people know, please tell us. But anyway, because it was more powerful and more stable than dynamite, it had a very high demand. It became the standard in mining technology because it was so easy to transport and was so powerful. And so throughout the 1870s and 80s, Alfred's wealth just skyrocketed. I mean, he had just created the industry standard for explosives in building and mining. He built an empire of over 90 factories and corporations around the world that would produce and market both dynamite, gelignite, and other explosives so... Arpita: 32:54 Wow, yeah, so like, they've really moved on past the like, one person dies in each of these little huts, so. Aarati: 32:59 Yes. Arpita: 33:00 I'm glad that that death rate Aarati: 33:00 He built an empire. Arpita: 33:01 Yeah, the death rate also went down, which is probably good. Aarati: 33:04 And the other patent that he made, which will become important a little bit later in the story, was for ballastite, which was a smokeless propellant that was made from nitroglycerin and another explosive, nitrocellulose. And ballastite is actually still used today as a rocket propellant, so. Arpita: 33:23 Is dynamite still used today? Aarati: 33:26 Yeah, I think so. Dynamite and gelignite are still used today, so. I did get curious though as to like what the difference between dynamite and TNT is Arpita: 33:35 Yeah, Aarati: 33:36 They are two different things. Yeah, so TNT is trinitrotoluene And it is different than dynamite Dynamite is much more powerful than TNT is. So here's where we start getting into the more controversial side of Alfred Nobel's life. Um, so, although Alfred's claim to fame were these highly destructive explosives, he was a self proclaimed pacifist. And there's a quote I found that He says, My dynamite will sooner lead to peace than a thousand world conventions. As soon as men will find that in one instant whole armies can be utterly destroyed, they will surely abide in golden peace. Which. Arpita: 34:19 Okay. Aarati: 34:20 I'm like, um. Yeah, no. You're either very naive, or I don't know what you're thinking about that, but. Arpita: 34:28 I don't even know how to rationalize that. Aarati: 34:31 I feel like that's the same thing that the inventors of the, um, the atomic bomb kind of said. Arpita: 34:38 That's true. Aarati: 34:39 Like, this is, this is the bomb that will end all wars, because as soon as people know about nuclear weapons and atomic bombs, everyone will be too scared to start a war, essentially, and we'll all live peacefully, happily ever after, and I'm like. Just moved us one step closer to mass extinction. Thank you. Arpita: 34:55 Yeah, literally. Aarati: 34:56 But there is this famous story that may or may not be true. There's some speculation, that when Alfred's older brother Ludwig passed away in 1888, there was a French newspaper that accidentally reported that Alfred was the one who had died. And they were saying stuff like, Alfred Nobel, who became rich by finding ways to kill more people faster than ever before, died yesterday. Arpita: 35:20 Oh no! Can you imagine? It's like literally your legacy. Aarati: 35:27 Yeah, exactly. and in one obituary they called him"The Merchant of Death". Arpita: 35:32 Oh my god, so they're not mincing words at all. Aarati: 35:35 No. So, the story goes that Alfred was reading this and thinking like, Oh my god, is that what people think of me? Is that going to be my legacy? Like, exactly that. Arpita: 35:45 This feels like Twitter of the 1800s, you know? Aarati: 35:47 Yeah. Arpita: 35:48 Yeah, like you're figuring out, or like the Reddit of the 1800s, where you like go and look at all the shit posts and see what people are saying about you. Aarati: 35:55 Yeah, and it's like, oh, crap. I didn't know that people thought about me like that. Like, I'm a pacifist. I was making dynamite to help build infrastructure and make the world a better place, and definitely not for wartime, but now all these people think that I'm creating these explosives and things for harming people, which, you know, that wasn't my intention. So, in order to change this awful image that people had of him, he decided to use his enormous fortune to do something good, which is why he set up the Nobel Prize. Allegedly. That is how the story goes. Whether that story about him reading about himself in the newspaper is true or not, either way, in November 1895, when he was 62, Alfred signed his last will, which specified that 94 percent of his fortune would go towards establishing the five Nobel Prizes. One for chemistry, one for physics, one for medical sciences and physiology, one for literature, and one for peace, which I was like, I feel like you're really Arpita: 37:05 That makes so much sense now, I feel like it like really came full circle. Aarati: 37:08 Yeah, I was like, oh, so that's why we have, I think, like, he still loved poetry and literature, so that's why we have one for literature, and he was really turning around, trying to turn around his image, which is why we have the Peace Prize. Arpita: 37:21 Peace Prize. Aarati: 37:22 Yes. Arpita: 37:23 Yeah, I mean, it worked. I definitely didn't know he had this reputation of, like, Aarati: 37:27 Right? Arpita: 37:27 Murder and like killing people away. Aarati: 37:29 I had no idea either Arpita: 37:29 away, which is like, I don't even think I would've associated him with dynamite. So that's like, yeah, actually like, I mean it, it worked. What- whatever it is. It worked. Yeah. I'm actually also always wondered why we have like physics, chemistry, medicine, and peace. I was like, why are those things all related? Is there one for economics or did I make that up? Aarati: 37:49 There is one for economics. Arpita: 37:50 There is one for economics. Aarati: 37:50 But he did not set up that one. That came later. Arpita: 37:53 Okay. Aarati: 37:53 Still to this day, every year, the Nobel Prize is awarded in these categories. In addition to the ultimate bragging rights, Nobel laureates are given green gold plated medals with 24 karat gold, a diploma, and a monetary award. And currently today, the monetary award is 11 million Swedish kronor, which is just about 1 million US dollars. Arpita: 38:17 For each prize? Aarati: 38:19 For each prize. Yeah. So if more than one person wins the prize, they have to split that monetary. But the words are passed out on December 10th, which is the date that Alfred died and before we get to his death There's one more kind of crazy part of Alfred's life that you need to know so Alfred had created this network of factories all over Europe, and as a result, he had to travel quite a lot between them. Between 1865 and 1873, Alfred's home was in Hamburg, Germany, and after that, he settled down in Paris. But in 1891, when he's now 58 years old, Alfred was accused of high treason by the French press. Arpita: 39:03 Stop. Aarati: 39:04 So, a few years before, Alfred had patented Ballistite, that smokeless propellant that I mentioned earlier. Arpita: 39:12 Yeah. Aarati: 39:12 And he had offered to sell the rights to the French government, but they declined because they deemed it not suitable for military use. So they were like, no thank you. Arpita: 39:22 Okay. Aarati: 39:23 So then Alfred took it to the Italian government, who did license it, and they used it to modernize their rifle cartridges. And at the time, Italy and France were competing with each other, basically, and so France saw this as a betrayal, like, how could you turn around and send this to Italy? So yeah, so because of that, he's accused of high treason, he's no longer allowed to conduct experiments in France at all, and so he was basically forced to leave Paris, and he went to settle down in San Remo, Italy instead. And here, on December 10th, in 1896, when he's 63 years old, Alfred had a stroke, which partially paralyzed him and made it to where he was only able to speak Swedish. anD at the time, there was no one else around him who could speak Swedish. Arpita: 40:14 Really. Aarati: 40:15 Yeah, there was no friends or family. He had never married although he did kind of have, like, three relationships throughout his life. So when he was in his early 20s in Russia, he had fallen in love with this woman named Alexandria, but he was rejected, and it took him apparently nearly 20 years to get over that. Arpita: 40:34 Oh my god, that's a poor guy. Aarati: 40:37 I know, because his next relationship was literally 20 years later. He hired a secretary named Bertha Kinsky, and he was attracted to her beauty intelligence, but she had a fiancéalready, so that was awkward. Arpita: 40:53 Oh, only a player. Aarati: 40:53 So, she resigned a few months later, but they stayed friends, and fun fact, she became the second woman to receive a Nobel Prize. Arpita: 41:03 Oh, wow, that's actually really cool. Aarati: 41:05 Yeah, and she won the Nobel Prize. Um, And his final relationship was with a woman named Sophie Hess. This one is a bit awkward too because there was quite a big age gap. Alfred was 43 and Sophie was only 20 ish. And their relationship was very toxic because Alfred kept their relationship a secret because he was ashamed of the age gap and Sophie wasn't very educated and she was It's very crass and ill mannered, but still, that relationship lasted over eighteen years, despite that. Arpita: 41:39 Eighteen years? Aarati: 41:40 Yes. Eighteen years of relationship. And even when Sophie became pregnant with another man's child and married that guy, the father of her child, Alfred still sent her a yearly allowance, so. Arpita: 41:55 Wow. She really lucked out. Aarati: 41:57 Yeah. But, Alfred himself never had children. He was a self described misanthrope. It kind of seemed like he took pride in being a recluse and kind of eccentric. So at the end there were only, the only people around him were his servants who I'm assuming really only spoke Italian. He died the same day he had that stroke, but just before he died, he wrote how sad it is to be without a friend who could whisper a consoling word and would one day gently close one's eyes. So. Arpita: 42:27 Wow, that is so depressing. Aarati: 42:30 I found that really, I found that really sad. I was like, you did all of these things in your life and then. Arpita: 42:35 Oh, and then he died alone. Aarati: 42:36 He died alone, feeling alone at the end, so. Arpita: 42:40 Wow, yeah, that's really, really sad. Aarati: 42:43 Yeah. But since it began handing out prizes in 1901, the Nobel Foundation has awarded the Nobel Prize over 600 times to 975 people and 25 organizations. In 1969, the Swedish Central Bank funded the establishment of the Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences. So there you go. Arpita: 43:05 That's where it came from. Okay. Aarati: 43:06 Yeah. So although it wasn't one of the original five, it still has the same nomination process and prestige. Um, To this day, the Nobel Prize is recognized worldwide as one of the highest achievements you can receive in the fields of science or literature. And that's the story of the man who started it all, Alfred Nobel. Arpita: 43:26 So I guess he died before the first award was, awarded, right? Aarati: 43:30 Yeah, you're right, so he died in 1896 and the first award was given out in 1901. So yeah, five years later Arpita: 43:38 Way do I turn to like, turn around his legacy though, like from going, Aarati: 43:41 I know Arpita: 43:42 someone who was like misunderstood and like potentially, you know, messing around with this like really dangerous substance. Basically had blood on his hands and then he really turned his reputation around. That's so crazy. It's so interesting about him like self identifying as like this like maverick or misanthrope like it's like, Aarati: 44:02 Yeah. Arpita: 44:02 It almost reminds me of like, Some of the like tech billionaires where they're just like, I'm just so misunderstood and like, I'm just gonna make, uh, you know, like, it's like this. Aarati: 44:13 And what are you going to do about it? Like, I have all the money. Arpita: 44:16 Exactly. Exactly. I feel like this is like a, like an Elon Musk situation where he's like, I know I'm weird. And he's like. Like, takes pride in that. But yeah, that's so interesting that like that sort of like trope hasn't really changed, you know, like Aarati: 44:29 But then at the same time, he doesn't want people to think badly of him, like Arpita: 44:32 That's fair, okay, so different from Elon. Aarati: 44:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like, oh no, people are calling me The Merchant of Death. I need to change this image people have of me. I'm a good person. I may be weird, but I'm, I'm a good person. And yeah, you're right, it totally worked because I knew nothing about his You know, whole history with explosives and dynamite and like, I had no idea who invented dynamite and then I was like, wait, it's the same guy who set up the Nobel prizes, like, how did I not know that? Arpita: 45:05 For peace. For peace. Aarati: 45:07 How did I not know that? I had no idea. So, yeah, I just, I just thought this was. A good story to kick off the first podcast, hopefully you enjoyed it. Arpita: 45:16 Yeah, great story. No, I loved it. It was so twisty. Yeah. There were so many different layers. Yeah, great story. Aarati: 45:22 thank you, and thanks for listening, everyone. So as you know, this is our first episode, so I'm sure you have feedback for us. We'd love to hear it. And if you have a scientist that you want us to do in a future episode, do let us know. Arpita: 45:38 Reach out to us at smartteapodcast.com And you can find our future episodes on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.